Login Register

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 31 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:58 am 
Offline
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 4069
Location: Vogelenzang, The Netherlands
Religion: Catholic
What responsibilities are associated with the brown scapular? I've heard conflicting accounts.

_________________
A teacher who is not dogmatic is simply a teacher who is not teaching. (G.K. Chesterton)

It is to idols that men turned (and turn) for quick and literal answers. (J.R.R. Tolkien)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:43 am 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 82840
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
official as of 2000
http://carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.html

Quote:
What is this Carmelite spirituality that one must practice in order to have an affiliation with the Carmelite Order?
The spirituality of the Carmelite Order is one of the preeminent spiritual traditions of the Catholic Church. It is difficult to reduce this spirituality to a few sentences. One who wears the scapular should certainly reflect upon the teachings of the great Carmelite saints, three of whom are doctors of the Church.
A few basic introductory principles of Carmelite spirituality would be—

frequent participation in the Mass and reception of Holy Communion;
frequent reading of and meditation on the Word of God in Sacred Scripture;
the regular praying of at least part of the Liturgy of the Hours;
imitation of and devotion to Mary, the woman of faith who hears the Word of God and puts it into practice;
the practice of the virtues, notably charity, chastity (according to one’s state of life), and obedience to the will of God.

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:34 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
faithfulservant wrote:
official as of 2000
http://carmelitanacollection.com/catechesis.html

Quote:
What is this Carmelite spirituality that one must practice in order to have an affiliation with the Carmelite Order?
The spirituality of the Carmelite Order is one of the preeminent spiritual traditions of the Catholic Church. It is difficult to reduce this spirituality to a few sentences. One who wears the scapular should certainly reflect upon the teachings of the great Carmelite saints, three of whom are doctors of the Church.
A few basic introductory principles of Carmelite spirituality would be—

frequent participation in the Mass and reception of Holy Communion;
frequent reading of and meditation on the Word of God in Sacred Scripture;
the regular praying of at least part of the Liturgy of the Hours;
imitation of and devotion to Mary, the woman of faith who hears the Word of God and puts it into practice;
the practice of the virtues, notably charity, chastity (according to one’s state of life), and obedience to the will of God.


Yes, that is the most recent presentation on the Scapular of Our Lady of Mount Carmel from the two orders, O.Carm., and O.C. D.

All those who distribute Brown Scapulars should read that, and misinformation will finally die out. However, many sites on the Brown Scapular still have much confusing misinformation in them.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:47 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:23 pm
Posts: 4222
Location: New Orleans, LA/Washougal, WA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
I owe my life to devotion to the Scapular and my mom's devotion to the Rosary. The promise is real.

_________________
Through the Sorrowful Passion of Jesus, have Mercy on us, and on the whole world...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:18 am 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
I owe my life to devotion to the Scapular and my mom's devotion to the Rosary. The promise is real.


Yes,the promise is real. The new catechesis was put forth to clarify some things so that there would be no misunderstandings, and so that it would be protected from superstition.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:11 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 13640
Location: Joyfully Caught in the Net
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus
I am surprised that your source says that people do not necessarily have to be enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity. My understanding was that one must.

Secondly, although I didn't see it mentioned, it has always been understood that if one did not pray the Divine Office or part, that one can substitute praying the rosary. The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer. My scapular practice is to read the daily readings and pray the rosary every day.

_________________
"Oh, night that guided me, Oh, night more lovely than the dawn, Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!" St. John of the Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:33 am 
Offline
Jedi Padawan
Jedi Padawan
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:41 pm
Posts: 4069
Location: Vogelenzang, The Netherlands
Religion: Catholic
Desertfalcon wrote:
The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer.

So one is no longer obliged to wear it day and night?

_________________
A teacher who is not dogmatic is simply a teacher who is not teaching. (G.K. Chesterton)

It is to idols that men turned (and turn) for quick and literal answers. (J.R.R. Tolkien)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:54 am 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
Desertfalcon wrote:
I am surprised that your source says that people do not necessarily have to be enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity. My understanding was that one must.

Secondly, although I didn't see it mentioned, it has always been understood that if one did not pray the Divine Office or part, that one can substitute praying the rosary. The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer. My scapular practice is to read the daily readings and pray the rosary every day.


I admit that I had to re-read that site in order to better understand about the various affiliations of the Scapular to the Carmelite Order. There is a lot to digest if one reads the entire site that was provided; and I own a thin book of 45 pages that contains the information in the site, and much more.

It is my understanding that the term "invest" or "enroll" is usually used when a person asks a priest or deacon about the wearing of the Brown Scapular. (It is not necessary to send names in anywhere.)

I learned something new when reading the question towards the end of the site that asks: "Well, what is the Scapular Confraternity?"

*****************************************************************

Also, there is a very short form that can be used:

"Receive this Scapular, a sign of your special relationship with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, whom you pledge to imitate. May it be a reminder to you of your dignity as a Christian in serving others and imitating Mary. Wear it as a sign of her protection and of belonging to the family of Carmel, voluntarily doing the will of God and devoting yourself to building a world true to his plan of community, justice and peace."

There is a longer form as well, which the priest who enrolled my grandson at age eleven used. It took about twelve minutes altogether and can be used for one person with several attending, or many at one time. The priest did this by appointment after a weekday Mass during the summer, using the booklet I had that he borrowed from me to read beforehand.

I remember that requirements for spiritual practices were articulated differently at different times.

Certainly the Rosary can be used in place of the LOTH or part. When I was a teen I had never heard of the LOTH, but I had read about the use of the "Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary" which could be substituted with the Rosary.

I can see that this sacramental means a lot to you, as it does to me and others as well.
It is hard to express my gratitude enough for the blessings that have come to me through the Brown Scapular throughout my life. :) :cloud9:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:10 am 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 82840
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
Turgonian wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer.

So one is no longer obliged to wear it day and night?


wearing it is part of the deal... i had a friend who had an old nasty one for working in the yard...or for showering...to be replaced by a good nice one to be worn all the rest of the time...

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:46 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 13640
Location: Joyfully Caught in the Net
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus
faithfulservant wrote:
Turgonian wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer.

So one is no longer obliged to wear it day and night?


wearing it is part of the deal... i had a friend who had an old nasty one for working in the yard...or for showering...to be replaced by a good nice one to be worn all the rest of the time...

My fault for not being more clear. I wear mine morning and night...but not in the shower. When I dress after bathing, I try to stick to my habit of donning it with a prayer and then reading the daily readings. I usually don't pray the rosary until the afternoon or early evening.

_________________
"Oh, night that guided me, Oh, night more lovely than the dawn, Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!" St. John of the Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:56 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 13640
Location: Joyfully Caught in the Net
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus
Dorothy B. wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
I am surprised that your source says that people do not necessarily have to be enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity. My understanding was that one must.

Secondly, although I didn't see it mentioned, it has always been understood that if one did not pray the Divine Office or part, that one can substitute praying the rosary. The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer. My scapular practice is to read the daily readings and pray the rosary every day.


I admit that I had to re-read that site in order to better understand about the various affiliations of the Scapular to the Carmelite Order. There is a lot to digest if one reads the entire site that was provided; and I own a thin book of 45 pages that contains the information in the site, and much more.

It is my understanding that the term "invest" or "enroll" is usually used when a person asks a priest or deacon about the wearing of the Brown Scapular. (It is not necessary to send names in anywhere.)

I learned something new when reading the question towards the end of the site that asks: "Well, what is the Scapular Confraternity?"

*****************************************************************

Also, there is a very short form that can be used:

"Receive this Scapular, a sign of your special relationship with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, whom you pledge to imitate. May it be a reminder to you of your dignity as a Christian in serving others and imitating Mary. Wear it as a sign of her protection and of belonging to the family of Carmel, voluntarily doing the will of God and devoting yourself to building a world true to his plan of community, justice and peace."

There is a longer form as well, which the priest who enrolled my grandson at age eleven used. It took about twelve minutes altogether and can be used for one person with several attending, or many at one time. The priest did this by appointment after a weekday Mass during the summer, using the booklet I had that he borrowed from me to read beforehand.

I remember that requirements for spiritual practices were articulated differently at different times.

Certainly the Rosary can be used in place of the LOTH or part. When I was a teen I had never heard of the LOTH, but I had read about the use of the "Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary" which could be substituted with the Rosary.

I can see that this sacramental means a lot to you, as it does to me and others as well.
It is hard to express my gratitude enough for the blessings that have come to me through the Brown Scapular throughout my life. :) :cloud9:

The scapular that I got came with an enrolment form in Latin which my pastor was happy to use! :)

The reason I mentioned the rosary substitution was not only because it is what I routinely do but it reminded me of how the scapular greatly increased devotion to the rosary through the ages as not many lay folks were literate before a century or so ago or had the LotH available and so devotion to daily rosary prayer became the mark of faithful lay Catholics who also wore the scapular. It has really helped me in developing much better, (certainly not perfect), habits of prayer, reading of SS and devotion to Our Lady's guidance to her Son. I recommend the scapular to all.

_________________
"Oh, night that guided me, Oh, night more lovely than the dawn, Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!" St. John of the Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:06 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:21 pm
Posts: 13640
Location: Joyfully Caught in the Net
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Knights of Columbus
Btw, here is a bigger one I just got in the mail and have yet to have blessed. It's HUGE and I'm not sure how practical it will be to wear daily. :)


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
"Oh, night that guided me, Oh, night more lovely than the dawn, Oh, night that joined Beloved with lover, Lover transformed in the Beloved!" St. John of the Cross


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:11 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
Desertfalcon wrote:
Btw, here is a bigger one I just got in the mail and have yet to have blessed. It's HUGE and I'm not sure how practical it will be to wear daily. :)


The width of my personal scapular just covers the width of the word "Faith", and reaches top to bottom on the brown colored area of DCF.

The one I wear to the monthly Lay Carmelite Order meeting is 6" x 8", and is worn over our clothing.

I have heard of such large scapulars to wear under clothing, but never saw one.

Remember, the first time your cloth scapular is blessed, that blessing will automatically pass on to the one you replace it with.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:54 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 82840
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
force fingered by the young lady from florida about the blessing transference 8-)

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:04 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
Desertfalcon wrote:
Dorothy B. wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
I am surprised that your source says that people do not necessarily have to be enrolled in the Scapular Confraternity. My understanding was that one must.

Secondly, although I didn't see it mentioned, it has always been understood that if one did not pray the Divine Office or part, that one can substitute praying the rosary. The scapular is a great spiritual aid. I think of it as donning armour and kiss and don it with my morning prayer. My scapular practice is to read the daily readings and pray the rosary every day.


I admit that I had to re-read that site in order to better understand about the various affiliations of the Scapular to the Carmelite Order. There is a lot to digest if one reads the entire site that was provided; and I own a thin book of 45 pages that contains the information in the site, and much more.

It is my understanding that the term "invest" or "enroll" is usually used when a person asks a priest or deacon about the wearing of the Brown Scapular. (It is not necessary to send names in anywhere.)

I learned something new when reading the question towards the end of the site that asks: "Well, what is the Scapular Confraternity?"

*****************************************************************

Also, there is a very short form that can be used:

"Receive this Scapular, a sign of your special relationship with Mary, the Mother of Jesus, whom you pledge to imitate. May it be a reminder to you of your dignity as a Christian in serving others and imitating Mary. Wear it as a sign of her protection and of belonging to the family of Carmel, voluntarily doing the will of God and devoting yourself to building a world true to his plan of community, justice and peace."

There is a longer form as well, which the priest who enrolled my grandson at age eleven used. It took about twelve minutes altogether and can be used for one person with several attending, or many at one time. The priest did this by appointment after a weekday Mass during the summer, using the booklet I had that he borrowed from me to read beforehand.

I remember that requirements for spiritual practices were articulated differently at different times.

Certainly the Rosary can be used in place of the LOTH or part. When I was a teen I had never heard of the LOTH, but I had read about the use of the "Little Office of the Blessed Virgin Mary" which could be substituted with the Rosary.

I can see that this sacramental means a lot to you, as it does to me and others as well.
It is hard to express my gratitude enough for the blessings that have come to me through the Brown Scapular throughout my life. :) :cloud9:

The scapular that I got came with an enrolment form in Latin which my pastor was happy to use! :)

The reason I mentioned the rosary substitution was not only because it is what I routinely do but it reminded me of how the scapular greatly increased devotion to the rosary through the ages as not many lay folks were literate before a century or so ago or had the LotH available and so devotion to daily rosary prayer became the mark of faithful lay Catholics who also wore the scapular. It has really helped me in developing much better, (certainly not perfect), habits of prayer, reading of SS and devotion to Our Lady's guidance to her Son. I recommend the scapular to all.


How unique that your pastor enrolled you in Latin!

In the parish of the first eighteen years of my life there were many older Italians who were illiterate and they always had Rosaries in their hands at church, and I think at home also.

It was nice then that the Rosary was promoted at Monday evening devotions, and First Saturdays as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:09 pm 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2005 9:47 am
Posts: 5497
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Third Order Lay Carmelite
faithfulservant wrote:
force fingered by the young lady from florida about the blessing transference 8-)


This young lady has 12 grandchildren, the oldest being 24! :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:14 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 82840
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
knew you had a few...had no idea how many ...congrats :cloud9:

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:45 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:23 pm
Posts: 4222
Location: New Orleans, LA/Washougal, WA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
Desertfalcon wrote:
Btw, here is a bigger one I just got in the mail and have yet to have blessed. It's HUGE and I'm not sure how practical it will be to wear daily. :)

There is actually no need to have a Scapular blessed AFAIK. You just need to be enrolled! And, you do not need to be a Catholic...

_________________
Through the Sorrowful Passion of Jesus, have Mercy on us, and on the whole world...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:18 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 82840
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
Quote:
A few basic introductory principles of Carmelite spirituality would be—

frequent participation in the Mass and reception of Holy Communion;
frequent reading of and meditation on the Word of God in Sacred Scripture;
the regular praying of at least part of the Liturgy of the Hours;
imitation of and devotion to Mary, the woman of faith who hears the Word of God and puts it into practice;
the practice of the virtues, notably charity, chastity (according to one’s state of life), and obedience to the will of God.


how does one receive Holy Communion if not Catholic :scratch:

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Scapular of Mt. Carmel
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:26 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2003 8:23 pm
Posts: 4222
Location: New Orleans, LA/Washougal, WA
Religion: Roman Catholic
Church Affiliations: Cursillo & KofC
faithfulservant wrote:
Quote:
A few basic introductory principles of Carmelite spirituality would be—

frequent participation in the Mass and reception of Holy Communion;
frequent reading of and meditation on the Word of God in Sacred Scripture;
the regular praying of at least part of the Liturgy of the Hours;
imitation of and devotion to Mary, the woman of faith who hears the Word of God and puts it into practice;
the practice of the virtues, notably charity, chastity (according to one’s state of life), and obedience to the will of God.


how does one receive Holy Communion if not Catholic :scratch:

You do not have to be Catholic to be enrolled in the Scapular. I said nothing concerning Holy Communion.

_________________
Through the Sorrowful Passion of Jesus, have Mercy on us, and on the whole world...


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 31 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: milby and 8 guests


Jump to: