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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:42 am 
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Cubano wrote:
Doom wrote:
Cubano wrote:
I'm going to do something I have been trying to avoid, but I just want to see what happens. My opinion is a Catholic has NO BUSINESS attending service in any other place/ religion outside of The Church. EVAH.



You're going against the Church on that one....what the Church allows, you have no right to forbid.


Does this mean the Church is wrong in forbidding contraception and abortion? What the State permits they have no right to forbid?


That doesn't make any sense.

The Church allows us to attend other services, but not to do any act which presumes a complete communion with heretics and/or schismatics.

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Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:46 am 
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this all went to pot 'cause Doom said I "forbade" someone from doing something the Church allows.. I never forbade anyone from doing anything, I just do not have that power..
anyways he said "what the Church permits, I cannot forbid.." so twist the logic around and I wonder, does he (Doom) then support the notion "What the State permits, the Church cannot forbid?"

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 7:59 am 
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Cubano wrote:
this all went to pot 'cause Doom said I "forbade" someone from doing something the Church allows.. I never forbade anyone from doing anything, I just do not have that power..
anyways he said "what the Church permits, I cannot forbid.." so twist the logic around and I wonder, does he (Doom) then support the notion "What the State permits, the Church cannot forbid?"


That doesn't work either simply because Doom and everyone else is acting on the certain knowledge that the Church is the highest authority.

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We are obliged to believe and confess with simplicity that outside the Church there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. [Pope Boniface VIII]

Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


Holy Mary, Queen of the Martyrs, Pray for us.



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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Oct 27, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Cubano wrote:
I do not know of ministers or pastors outside of the priesthood that can perform Transubstantiation and turn the host and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.
Orthodox priests.
Catholic priests who have left the Church and joined other denominations, for instance Anglican/Episcopalian churches.
Priests ordained into some old-catholic churches like the PNCC.

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:57 am 
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Closet Catholic wrote:
Cubano wrote:
I do not know of ministers or pastors outside of the priesthood that can perform Transubstantiation and turn the host and wine into the Body and Blood of Christ.
Orthodox priests.
Catholic priests who have left the Church and joined other denominations, for instance Anglican/Episcopalian churches.
Priests ordained into some old-catholic churches like the PNCC.


while I wasn't excluding the Orthodox, I wasn't thinking about those those who had left to join other denominations, I just didn't even consider it.. thanks for bringing it up The reason I made the point was to say "the Body and Blood of Christ would not be received .." if one went to a service outside of the Catholicism. There may be an ex-priest here or there, but it is not the general rule. Out of curiosity, would an ex-priest still perform Transubstantiation?

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St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:59 am 
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Cubano wrote:
Out of curiosity, would an ex-priest still perform Transubstantiation?
Yes, but illicitly (and probably gravely sinful).

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:45 am 
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in 3, 2, 1..... 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:35 pm 
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It is really simple: If you communicate with those who are in schism, then you cease to communicate with those who are not in schism, and vice-versa.

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We are obliged to believe and confess with simplicity that outside the Church there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. [Pope Boniface VIII]

Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


Holy Mary, Queen of the Martyrs, Pray for us.



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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:55 pm 
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[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:23 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:52 am 
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Cubano wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)


confect

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We are obliged to believe and confess with simplicity that outside the Church there is neither salvation nor the remission of sins. [Pope Boniface VIII]

Judas Iscariot is the patron saint of Social Justice. Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

A logistics problem should be handled with a logistical solution, not a liturgical one.


Holy Mary, Queen of the Martyrs, Pray for us.



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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Sat Oct 29, 2011 5:59 am 
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lemme just :incense :incense :incense for a minute here

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:32 pm 
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Cubano wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
[nails-on-a-chalkboard]Please don't say "perform" with respect to the sacraments.[/nails-on-a-chalkboard]


ok, what verb should I use? (i ask sincerely)

Celebrate, confect, offer are all good words

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:49 pm 
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thanks..

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 1:07 pm 
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pax wrote:
It is really simple: If you communicate with those who are in schism, then you cease to communicate with those who are not in schism, and vice-versa.


There was a post earlier in the thread from Master Obi-Wan saying that Catholics may receive communion in an Orthodox church. But I assume the Catholics still consider the Orthodox schismatics or heretics. My uncle who is Catholic told me that Orthodox can receive communion in a Catholic church under certain circumstances.

Also, if denomination A and denomination B both acknowledge that God is gracing their Eucharist how can they be out of communion with each other? Maybe the creeds are different but obviously God isn't concerned with those details so why should the churches?


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:03 pm 
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anna1978 wrote:
I agree, most of my Protestant friends DO believe the Catholics to be Christians-they may disagree about the role of the Pope or other things, but I've never heard any of them say 'You're not a Christian!'
I have.

Some of more enthusiastic fundamentalist friends have labeled the Church as a cult, a deviation from the historic church, an impediment to salvation -- and most agree that the Church is in grievous error. Oh, and that they, and only they, are truly Christian.

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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:56 pm 
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Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:25 am 
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bill ahlers wrote:
Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill


Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2011 6:39 pm 
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Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill
cloudyday wrote:
bill ahlers wrote:
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.


God will help you along the way. If you had an experience He's calling you for a reason. You COULD have had a mental break and thats all but what if it wasn't? How much time do you have to listen?


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 Post subject: Re: communion in non-Catholic/non-Orthodox church
PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:51 am 
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bill ahlers wrote:
Hey Cloudydays,

I want to say I have been in your boat. I am sorry for jumping in here and I am a very new Catholic but like you, I have had an awakening. Thought I was going crazy for sure. I don't believe there are as many true atheists as claimed but I was close. If you seek you will find. As far as communion why would I take communion in a church with different doctrine? Faith and the Sacraments esp Euchrist is the mainspring of our belief imo. Something sacred and I would not only corrupt myself taking communion outside of my doctrine but also demean theirs. Why would I WANT to? Why would I argue with either denomination about why I can't? I see obedience as an important part of Loving God. Obedience not to just Gods law but in general. Excluding when its leading me our someone else into sin. This isn't a debate you either believe the Nicene Creed or you don't. I have to read it from a prayer book every mass but I savor each word. There isn't a "I will believe this but not that" and if it is your not there yet. Keep praying and ask God to increase your faith and He will, but don't argue when he does :). Good luck

Bill
cloudyday wrote:
bill ahlers wrote:
Thanks. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has felt crazy. I'm back to being nearly 100% atheist now, but I think if my experiences had anything to do with God then I probably can make many mistakes and still get to wherever God wants me.


God will help you along the way. If you had an experience He's calling you for a reason. You COULD have had a mental break and thats all but what if it wasn't? How much time do you have to listen?


That idea "he's calling you for a reason" was my motivation for trying. In some ways I think I am hiding from the truth because it scares me. My Christian beliefs from childhood are the source of the fear. Oh well.


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