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 Post subject: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Moderators, I was not sure where to put this thread so if you feel the need, please move it.

Now for the thread...



This looks interesting. Its no secret that the idea of social justice has been hijacked by those with a political agenda. I myself used to despise the term simply because of the way it is often used. When I discovered the truth of Church teaching on the subject in the Catechism as well as the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, I realized that I had no arguments against it. Particularly since the Church does allow for some differences of opinion on things such as the best way to help the poor, etc.

Now, the Order of Preachers via their online apostolate, [url="http://www.preachingfriars.org/"]Preaching Friars[/url], is putting out a series of videos on the Church's teaching regarding Social Justice. I admit curiosity at how they will discuss and present the topics.


Here are the first two introductory videos:

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice


I will try to keep posting these as they come out.


Our Holy Father Dominic, pray for us.


Peace,

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:40 pm 
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The Dignity of the Human Person: Introduction

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... troduction


The Dignity of the Human Person: Catechesis

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... catechesis


From Conception to Birth

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... tion-birth

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:32 am 
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Can these videos be purchased in a dvd format?

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:50 am 
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Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
Can these videos be purchased in a dvd format?


They are brand new so I doubt it. However, you could always contact the friars and ask. http://www.preachingfriars.org/ask-friar


Peace,

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 6:56 am 
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Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Here are the first two introductory videos:

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice


I will try to keep posting these as they come out.


Our Holy Father Dominic, pray for us.


Peace,


So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 7:49 am 
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sunmumy wrote:
Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Here are the first two introductory videos:

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice


I will try to keep posting these as they come out.


Our Holy Father Dominic, pray for us.


Peace,


So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....
What I took from it, is the fact that the term has become loaded. It makes sense. The "social Justice" crowd used our Catholic term to spread their agenda via Catholic institutions… and it was some ad bishops and priests that helped to tarnish the phrase...

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:06 am 
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sunmumy wrote:
Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Here are the first two introductory videos:

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice


I will try to keep posting these as they come out.


Our Holy Father Dominic, pray for us.


Peace,


So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....


It is being done for the purpose of catechesis overall.

The comments about Glen Beck to my understanding, are used to show how the term "Social Justice" has become misunderstood and is a hot button issue. Multiple commentators within the Church have talked about how the term has been hijacked by those with a political agenda rather than a desire to help others. I believe that the comment directed towards Michael Voris was aimed at showing how Catholics often misunderstand the idea as well. Michael Voris has been very outspoken against the type of "Social Justice" touted from those on the far left of our political system and also within the Church. I believe the friars are attempting to show the true social doctrine of the Church.


Peace of Christ,

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A Systematic Study of the Catholic Religion, by Fr. Charles Coppins, SJ


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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 10:07 am 
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Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
sunmumy wrote:

So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....
What I took from it, is the fact that the term has become loaded. It makes sense. The "social Justice" crowd used our Catholic term to spread their agenda via Catholic institutions… and it was some ad bishops and priests that helped to tarnish the phrase...

I believe you are correct...

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A Systematic Study of the Catholic Religion, by Fr. Charles Coppins, SJ


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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Servant of Guadalupe wrote:
sunmumy wrote:

So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....
What I took from it, is the fact that the term has become loaded. It makes sense. The "social Justice" crowd used our Catholic term to spread their agenda via Catholic institutions… and it was some ad bishops and priests that helped to tarnish the phrase...

I believe you are correct...

It is what the left does. They take good terms (gay, liberal, progressive, CHOICE) and adopt them into their language in a way that is absolutely contradictory to thier true meaning. The bad thing now is, "social justice" is a bad word to the good guys, but it is still a legitamate term in discussing Church teaching. It then causes confusion, and can cause some good Catholics to turn against priests and bishops that are using the term "social justice" legitimately. It helps some Catholics to view some legitimate "social justice" issues as part of a leftist agenda, when it really is not. Transversely, when bishops and priests talk positively about "social justice" it reassures the lefty heretic Catholics that they are doing the right thing becasue Fr. So and So or Bp. So and So are on board with "social justice." That is purposeful.

In the same note, there are terms that are used by Catholics and Protestants that mean severely different things from one group to the other. This can cause hours, and days of argumentation, when the only discrepencies may be semantic. Divide and conquor. Let's take "worship" for instance. I worship the saints and Blessed Mother regularly. I do. I am a Catholic, and that is what Catholics do. We worship and pray to the saints. Our definition of worship is quite a bit varied from the Protestant definition. Our definition is much older than theirs. Catholics will argue with me 'til they are blue in the face that I am wrong about what I just said concerning worship. Look at any number of Catholic publicatios more than a few decades old and you will come across time and again references to us worshiping the saints. In black and white. It is there. We did it then, we do it now. We just define those words differently, and those that are not aware of that are thrown off completely. It is a sham and a shame...

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:32 pm 
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Dignity of the Human Person: Immigration

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... mmigration


Human Dignity & Mission: An Interview

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... -interview


Care of Creation

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... e-creation

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 6:47 am 
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Article: Fra Angelico and the Divine Painter

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... ne-painter

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Our Apostolic Mandate: Letter of Pope Saint Pius X to the French Bishops on the Sillon would be a pertinent reading for this subject. Among some of the errors mentioned and condemned by Pope Saint Pius X, there is an ill-conceived love of the poor and an erroneous notion of human dignity.

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 1:04 pm 
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The term "social justice" has been hijacked by the left to give credence to the communist/socialist/progressive agenda where "all people deserve equality" as opposed to God's gift of free will. In other words, let Big Brother give you everything you need and it is not necessary to actually make an effort on your own. Sadly, far too many are used to this both here in the USA and in Europe where the costs of socialism are coming home to roost.

:titanic:

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:44 pm 
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lvcabbie wrote:
The term "social justice" has been hijacked by the left to give credence to the communist/socialist/progressive agenda where "all people deserve equality" as opposed to God's gift of free will. In other words, let Big Brother give you everything you need and it is not necessary to actually make an effort on your own. Sadly, far too many are used to this both here in the USA and in Europe where the costs of socialism are coming home to roost.

:titanic:

I agree completely. I used to absolutely hate the term "social justice" before I came into the Church and learned what it really means rather than what it has been spun into for the sake of political gain. It is also one of the reasons I really hope more Catholics will study that aspect of the faith and why I am glad to see the Order of Preachers coming out with this video series.

Peace,

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Sat Mar 24, 2012 6:45 pm 
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PDUBYA wrote:
Our Apostolic Mandate: Letter of Pope Saint Pius X to the French Bishops on the Sillon would be a pertinent reading for this subject. Among some of the errors mentioned and condemned by Pope Saint Pius X, there is an ill-conceived love of the poor and an erroneous notion of human dignity.


Agreed. Those concepts are often misunderstood.


Peace,

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:23 pm 
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Creation - Seen Through the Eyes of Beauty

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Evolution and Creation

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... d-creation

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 11:59 am 
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Animals and the Care for Creation

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
sunmumy wrote:
Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Here are the first two introductory videos:

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice

http://www.preachingfriars.org/vox-clam ... al-justice


I will try to keep posting these as they come out.


Our Holy Father Dominic, pray for us.


Peace,


So, what exactly is this Glenn Beck comment. I'm unclear on wether what is written on the blog is a critique of Glenn Beck or a critique of Catholics who misunderstand social justice....


It is being done for the purpose of catechesis overall.

The comments about Glen Beck to my understanding, are used to show how the term "Social Justice" has become misunderstood and is a hot button issue. Multiple commentators within the Church have talked about how the term has been hijacked by those with a political agenda rather than a desire to help others. I believe that the comment directed towards Michael Voris was aimed at showing how Catholics often misunderstand the idea as well. Michael Voris has been very outspoken against the type of "Social Justice" touted from those on the far left of our political system and also within the Church. I believe the friars are attempting to show the true social doctrine of the Church.


Peace of Christ,

I would just make a few points on statements that gave me pause.


1. Social Justice as defined by the Church is not a, "desire to help others". I will give you a clue. Social Justice as defined by the Church is the primary responsibility of the State. Indeed, it is directly the product of the whole reason for the State's very existence. Now that does not mean that Catholics must endorse a single-payer government health care system or that the rich should be taxed as "x" amount, or that we must vote one party or the other specifically, but it does mean that people like Glenn Beck are flat. dead. wrong. when it comes to social justice and the State's obligations.

2. Michael Voris is utterly unreliable as a source for Catholic orthodoxy...in any number of areas including this one.

3. The CSDC is a great source for that knowledge and it sharply differs from the view of people like Messrs. Beck or Voris.

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 12:57 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:


1. Social Justice as defined by the Church is not a, "desire to help others". I will give you a clue.
Oh please, give me a clue. I am fully aware of what social justice is. In fact I did not state that social justice was defined as a "desire to help others". Rather, I stated that a persons motivation for pursuing social justice could be from a desire to help others instead of pushing a political agenda. I have read both the compendium you linked as well as the catechism on the subject along with other writings as well. Social justice is probably better stated, albeit simplistically, as ensuring that others get their due based on their inherent dignity as a person, vocation in life, and the common good.
Desertfalcon wrote:

2. Michael Voris is utterly unreliable as a source for Catholic orthodoxy...in any number of areas including this one.
Agreed, to a point. Voris is correct as is Beck that many things have been done in the name of Social Justice which do not match up with Church teaching on the subject. From the nanny state to pushing for things like a single payer health care system. Heck, the supposed right to abortion has been treated as a social justice issue along with pushing for women priests, and various other ridiculous things. Furthermore, social justice may be the state's primary role but that is not the same thing as saying that the primary entity responsible for social justice is the state. Far too many of us, Catholics included, have pawned off our responsibilities to the state. Finally, because of this, the state has pushed their big fat nose into places they have no business being.
Desertfalcon wrote:
3. The CSDC is a great source for that knowledge and it sharply differs from the view of people like Messrs. Beck or Voris.
Agreed, that is a great resource and one that I wish more Catholics would read along with associated teachings from various popes and the catechism.

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 Post subject: Re: Series on Church Social Doctrine, by the Order of Preachers
PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 1:54 pm 
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Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
I am fully aware of what social justice is. In fact I did not state that social justice was defined as a "desire to help others". Rather, I stated that a persons motivation for pursuing social justice could be from a desire to help others instead of pushing a political agenda.

Then you do not understand social justice as defined by the Church. Although it is laudable and obligatory that each individual work toward it and be so motivated, it is the primary obligation of the State, not private individuals and actually involves the entire order of the commonwealth, not simply help for the poor, i.e. it is not defined as "charity", (as the modern secular definition defines it.). It is due justice, the proper order of the commonwealth and the upholding of the common good. It isn't the end product of the desire you describe because it has to do with issues like living wages, the inalienable right to health care, the proper understanding of private property, etc.

Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
I have read both the compendium you linked as well as the catechism on the subject along with other writings as well. Social justice is probably better stated, albeit simplistically, as ensuring that others get their due based on their inherent dignity as a person, vocation in life, and the common good.

No problem there, as far as it goes. Big problem when those like Glenn Beck say things like...

Beck wrote:
If you have a priest that is pushing social justice, go find another parish. Go alert your bishop and tell them, “Excuse me are you down with this whole social justice thing?” I don’t care what the church is. If it’s my church, I’m alerting the church authorities: “Excuse me, what’s this social justice thing?” And if they say, “Yeah, we’re all in that social justice thing,” I’m in the wrong place.

:nooo:

Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Agreed, to a point. Voris is correct as is Beck that many things have been done in the name of Social Justice which do not match up with Church teaching on the subject. From the nanny state to pushing for things like a single payer health care system.


If that were all that they said I would have less of a problem with it. It isn't. They both deny the State's very reason for existence according to Catholic teaching. As to your specifics, there is absolutely nothing in Catholic teaching that would, in the abstract, oppose a single payer health care system if that is what the legitimate political authority of the State determines is the most competent level and method of insuring that the inalienable right to health care is met. That is not to say that I think that best. I don't, but I highlight it because it points out that I really don't think you do understand said teaching.

Ordo Praedicatorum wrote:
Heck, the supposed right to abortion has been treated as a social justice issue along with pushing for women priests, and various other ridiculous things. Furthermore, social justice may be the state's primary role but that is not the same thing as saying that the primary entity responsible for social justice is the state. Far too many of us, Catholics included, have pawned off our responsibilities to the state. Finally, because of this, the state has pushed their big fat nose into places they have no business being.

All of that may be true and has nothing to do with what I am stating. I am not and will not defend any erroneous idea of what social justice might mean.

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