Login Register

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:41 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:30 am
Posts: 5832
Location: Double-Decker Couch
Religion: Lead, Kindly Light
Chesterton wrote:
I never dreamed that the Roman religion was true; but I knew that its accusers, for some reason or other, were curiously inaccurate.


As usual, Chesteron hit the nail on the head; that is me (well was me, I'm at least at a point where I can dream that the Roman religion is true). Over the years I've found myself on the edges of conversations where I know the Catholic point of view was grossly misrepresented or nonfactual things were said about the Catholic faith... I usually didn't speak up unless I felt I had to, and even then it was in a timid sort of way.

I don't have the luxury anymore.

Well, perhaps that was no luxury, perhaps that was a curse. Either way, I am about to start having these conversations regularly (with level-headed Evangelicals, passionate but misguided Evangelicals, and vehement anti-Catholics) and I will be the center of attention and I will have everything and the kitchen sink thrown at me and I will have to give some answers. Nothing like necessity to get one out of a funk.

So I'm coming to you guys to see if you know of any truthful responses to some of these questions I am being asked. Aren't you lucky?? I'm only in the early stages of this and I know I am going to get some real whoppers thrown my way. :mrgreen:

Ready for my first question?

_________________
Never do a wrong thing to make a friend or to keep one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:44 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:30 am
Posts: 5832
Location: Double-Decker Couch
Religion: Lead, Kindly Light
Quote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."


And no, this was not a comment from an anti-Catholic...

I don't even know how to start responding to that one. If anyone has read any Catholic teaching on the Papacy you know this isn't true at all. Is there some wording in Catholic teaching somewhere that would give someone a false impression of this idea? :scratch:

_________________
Never do a wrong thing to make a friend or to keep one.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:54 pm 
Offline
King of Cool
User avatar

Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 11:30 am
Posts: 68304
Religion: Anticukite Catholic
baptist bumble wrote:
Quote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."


And no, this was not a comment from an anti-Catholic...

I don't even know how to start responding to that one. If anyone has read any Catholic teaching on the Papacy you know this isn't true at all. Is there some wording in Catholic teaching somewhere that would give someone a false impression of this idea? :scratch:


Now that one was funny! :laughhard Sadly, people like me might be responsible for things like that....I have a gift for sarcasm..sometimes when people say ridiculous things about the Church, I like to play along to see how gullible they are by making up even more outrageously stupid things and seeing if they believe it...

My all time favorite one of these is when I was listening to someone rant about Catholics 'worshiping statues' and I said, with as serious expression as I could muster, that statues of saints aren't just statues, they are actually inhabited by the spirits of the saints they represent and as such they actually are the saint in question (like the paintings in the Harry Potter universe) and that we call this the doctrine of 'trans-sub-statue-ation'

That was in about 1998, and I bet that somewhere out there is a crazed anti-Catholic still ranting about the Catholic doctrine of 'trans-sub-statue-ation'....

Another time a fundamentalist got right in my face and said 'do you really believe that Mary was assumed into heaven?' and I said 'not only do I believe it, but I believe that when she went into heaven she spun in the air and did a pirouette just like a ballerina'


Ah....my gift of sarcasm gets the better of me sometimes...

_________________
"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and they deserve to get it good and hard" HL Mencken

Therefore.....let it burn.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:33 pm 
Offline
Potty Hollerer
Potty Hollerer

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:47 pm
Posts: 8253
Religion: Catholic
baptist bumble wrote:
Quote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."

I didn't know we could only pray thru the pope.
I thought we could only pray thru the priests.
(that is the version I got most often - that we cannot pray directly to God ... :roll: )

L.

_________________
ImagePrayers for all who have requested prayer, or for whom prayer has been requested.


Last edited by Linsou on Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:45 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:30 pm
Posts: 4378
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
You are being put in a tough spot if these people expect you to explain any miscellaneous ridiculous assertion about the Catholic Church that they have ever heard or read. What I recommend you do is request documentation, and I don’t mean documentation from Catholic sources since there won’t be any.

Did they get it from a Chick tract? An anti-Catholic web site? Tell them to show you, in print, the source of the assertion. At that point you have something to deal with. Is the writer misunderstanding or traducing what the CCC, or some other official Church document, says? Is the person taking a particularly dark time or event in Church history as a true representation of what the Church believes? Is the assertion quoting an anti-Catholic source as authoritative? Is it just someone’s opinion, with nothing to back it up?

If they don’t have a source that you can check then just say, “That is not true.”

_________________
Formerly: Greg.

- I try to have a little something for everybody in my posts. If you notice a spelling, grammar, or punctuation error... well... I put that in for you.

- I remember a lot of things. (Some of which actually happened.)

- Even the best of men may be born in times unsuited to their virtues.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:53 pm 
Offline
Neener Queen
Neener Queen
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:33 pm
Posts: 9699
Location: Too Tired to Remember
Religion: Catholic
Yep, the simplest answer is the best. Until they can come up with documentation from a reliable source that is what Catholics do, then I wouldn't go further.

Now as far as the Pope being an intercessor, we all are intercessors each time we pray for someone. So when the Pope prays for all the Catholic faithful, then yes he is being an intercessor for all the Catholic faithful. I am hard-pressed to not roll my eyes at this supposed charge against Catholicism.

Definition of intercession - prayer, petition, or entreaty in favor of another.

_________________
Formerly known as ElizabethF

You cannot have Jesus as your brother and then reject Mary as your mother. You cannot love His Father as your Father, and then refuse to love His mother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:45 am 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 11:52 pm
Posts: 2606
Location: Australia
Religion: Catholic
So does that mean that the Pope has to approve of all our prayers? If I'm praying for something he doesn't consider "good", then it doesn't get passed along? Or is it more like a game of Chinese whispers, where he'll pass along anything that gets prayed, you just better hope (don't bother praying) that he hears you right?

I'd ask for more information and let them dig themselves into a hole and hopefully they'll realise how ridiculious their suggestion is.

_________________
"We never give more honour to Jesus than when we honour his Mother, and we honour her simply and solely to honour him all the more perfectly. We go to her only as a way leading to the goal we seek - Jesus, her Son."
-Saint Louis Marie de Montfort


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 4:14 am 
Offline
Neener Queen
Neener Queen
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 6:33 pm
Posts: 9699
Location: Too Tired to Remember
Religion: Catholic
You know, usually we get beat up over praying to Mary. Nice to know that someone thinks we actually pray to God. :D

_________________
Formerly known as ElizabethF

You cannot have Jesus as your brother and then reject Mary as your mother. You cannot love His Father as your Father, and then refuse to love His mother.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:04 am 
Offline
Jedi Master
Jedi Master
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2002 7:55 am
Posts: 65221
Location: 1.56381501 radians
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree KofC
Let me third or fourth the advice that you have to make the accuser come up with support for his claim. All you have to do (and should do) is say, "Catholics do not believe that. Where do you hear it?" You will hear:

a) From Pastor Bob, who read it somewhere.
b) From Pastor Bob, whose aunt used to be Catholic.
c) From Pastor Bob, who used to be Catholic himself.
d) From the speaker's own aunt, who used to be Catholic.
e) From the speaker, who used to be Catholic.
f) Etc.

When you get that response, don't say, "They're lying!" Say, "I'm not sure where they got that, but they really must be remembering wrong."

Sadly, they might not even be remembering wrong. It's entirely possible that some Catholic person taught them that or something like it; those who are supposed to teach the faith sometimes insert piously-intended innovations without even knowing it.

When you've gotten this far, some interlocutors will still insist that they must be right, and that's the point at which you tell them that they're going to have to show you it in writing from a Catholic source.

_________________
Nos autem in nomine Domini Dei nostri

Need something to read?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:15 am 
Offline
Tazer Queen
Tazer Queen
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 7:18 am
Posts: 20561
Location: Where it is always 1895.
Religion: Catholic
I like Father's response. "I'm sorry, but I fear you have some inaccurate information. Perhaps you can show me your source for this?"

You can also add if you feel like it: "All the reading I've done of their catechism and documents show clearly the opposite to be true."

Which is true, is it not?
--Ann
PS: It is possible that they are somehow confused about the Communion of Saints (wherein we can ask the intercession of those in heaven, including angels).

_________________
http://www.annmargaretlewis.comImage
http://www.catholicwritersguild.com
http://www.catholicwritersconference.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:20 am 
Offline
Handmaids of the Lord
Handmaids of the Lord
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:10 pm
Posts: 4984
Religion: Catholic
baptist bumble wrote:
Quote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."


And no, this was not a comment from an anti-Catholic...

I don't even know how to start responding to that one. If anyone has read any Catholic teaching on the Papacy you know this isn't true at all. Is there some wording in Catholic teaching somewhere that would give someone a false impression of this idea? :scratch:



I like your own response that I put in bold. Fr. used to have a line in his signature about the Catholic faith being so full that one cannot take it in a teacup.. or something like that. I think answers like that are the best ones to give.

You can engage these people and ask them where they heard that.... and after they answer the way Fr explained because undoubtedly that is how they will answer, you can explain how through your own investigation into the Church, that is not how it is.

You can literally go back and forth with someone about this and unless their mind and heart is opened to actually HEAR what you say, you are going to be wasting your breath.

Since you believe you are about to go into battle on this, my suggestion to you is to wake every day and first thing say the St. Patrick's Prayer. There is no better way to start the day than with a prayer like this one. It is just the armor that you will need.

The Prayer of St. Patrick

I arise today
Through the strength of heaven;
Light of the sun,
Splendor of fire,
Speed of lightning,
Swiftness of the wind,
Depth of the sea,
Stability of the earth,
Firmness of the rock.

I arise today
Through God's strength to pilot me;
God's might to uphold me,
God's wisdom to guide me,
God's eye to look before me,
God's ear to hear me,
God's word to speak for me,
God's hand to guard me,
God's way to lie before me,
God's shield to protect me,
God's hosts to save me
Afar and anear,
Alone or in a mulitude.

Christ shield me today
Against wounding
Christ with me, Christ before me, Christ behind me,
Christ in me, Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ on my right, Christ on my left,
Christ when I lie down, Christ when I sit down,
Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks of me,
Christ in the eye that sees me,
Christ in the ear that hears me.

I arise today
Through the mighty strength
Of the Lord of creation


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:51 am 
Offline
Some Poor Bibliophile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 20, 2003 8:22 pm
Posts: 14891
baptist bumble wrote:
Quote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."


And no, this was not a comment from an anti-Catholic...

I don't even know how to start responding to that one. If anyone has read any Catholic teaching on the Papacy you know this isn't true at all. Is there some wording in Catholic teaching somewhere that would give someone a false impression of this idea? :scratch:




"Now obviously a man (talking) like that is simply imagining what might exist; it has never occurred to him to go and ask what does exist".

GKC

_________________
"I tell you naught for your comfort,
Yea, naught for your desire,
Save that the sky grows darker yet
And the sea rises higher."


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:26 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 23, 2002 11:13 am
Posts: 31963
Location: Midwest
Religion: Catholic
Yep, ask them where they got that....the burden of proof is on them.

SV

_________________
“Be sober and vigilant: because your enemy the devil, like a roaring lion, is roaming around seeking whom he might devour. Strong in faith, resist him knowing that the same affliction befalls your brethren who are in the world. ” 1 Peter 5:8-9.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:02 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 30, 2002 10:30 pm
Posts: 4378
Location: The carrefour of ignorance is bliss & knowledge is power.
Religion: The One with All the Marks.
Lisa1515 wrote:
... You can literally go back and forth with someone about this and unless their mind and heart is opened to actually HEAR what you say, you are going to be wasting your breath...


The answer is wasted on those not really interested in the question.

_________________
Formerly: Greg.

- I try to have a little something for everybody in my posts. If you notice a spelling, grammar, or punctuation error... well... I put that in for you.

- I remember a lot of things. (Some of which actually happened.)

- Even the best of men may be born in times unsuited to their virtues.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:16 pm 
Offline
Newbie
Newbie
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:50 pm
Posts: 36
Religion: Catholic
You probably already know about this website, but I think it does a pretty good job of conveying Catholicism in the evangelical vernacular.

http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/index2.htm


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 8:26 pm 
Offline
DIY Guru Moderator
DIY Guru Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 9:25 pm
Posts: 15757
Location: Gone fishin'
Religion: Jesus said, "This IS My Body!"
IN the bar section of my entertainment center is a bobblehead of Martin Luther. When I hear such things as Catholics pray to the Pope, I walk over, open the doors to the cabinet,and sharply smack Luther on the head while asking, "Do you see what you started?" He always vigorously nods his head "Yes." You could try such an approach to whomever told you Catholics must pray through the Pope.

_________________
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:07 pm 
Offline
Adept
Adept
User avatar

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:37 pm
Posts: 5000
Location: Bergen, Norway
Religion: High Church Lutheran
Church Affiliations: Church of Norway
baptist bumble wrote:
"You know that the Pope is the intercessor for all Catholics right? That is what it means to be Catholic. It means that all of your prayers have to go to the Pope and then the Pope sends them on to God."
baptist bumble wrote:
Is there some wording in Catholic teaching somewhere that would give someone a false impression of this idea? :scratch:
No.

Ask the person to back up his claim. If he can't, tell him that you are then not required to answer him. And if he won't back up his claim, maybe even claiming that this is something 'everyone knows,' there's not much more you ca do except tell him he's wrong.

_________________
Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο

“Being religious means asking passionately the question of the meaning of our existence and being willing to receive answers, even if the answers hurt.” — Paul Tillich

http://katolikken.wordpress.com/
English texts: http://katolikken.wordpress.com/tag/english-texts-2/

http://www.facebook.com/kjetilkringlebotten

http://twitter.com/katolikken

http://thecatholic.wordpress.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:12 pm 
Offline
Our Lady's Gladiator
Our Lady's Gladiator
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 5:26 am
Posts: 80657
Location: Revelation 11:19-12:1
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 3rd Degree Knight of Columbus
The M Word wrote:
IN the bar section of my entertainment center is a bobblehead of Martin Luther. When I hear such things as Catholics pray to the Pope, I walk over, open the doors to the cabinet,and sharply smack Luther on the head while asking, "Do you see what you started?" He always vigorously nods his head "Yes." You could try such an approach to whomever told you Catholics must pray through the Pope.


:mrgreen: :laughhard :laughhard :laughhard :mrgreen:

you go girl 8-)

_________________
All Marian devotion begins with Christ,is centered on Christ,and ends with Christ.
As Mary brought Jesus to us,so shall She bring us to Jesus!


De Maria numquam satis

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:48 am 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 21, 2002 12:53 pm
Posts: 5904
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: 4th Degree Knight
The M Word wrote:
IN the bar section of my entertainment center is a bobblehead of Martin Luther. When I hear such things as Catholics pray to the Pope, I walk over, open the doors to the cabinet,and sharply smack Luther on the head while asking, "Do you see what you started?" He always vigorously nods his head "Yes." You could try such an approach to whomever told you Catholics must pray through the Pope.



Gotta get me one of those!! :laughhard

_________________
Sola lingua bona est lingua mortua.

What you see depends on what you thought before you looked. Eugene Taurman


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Help the Bumble 'Rumble'
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:32 pm 
Offline
Ancient Mariner
Ancient Mariner
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:04 pm
Posts: 16957
Location: If I'm not there I must be here
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Honorary Member 3rd degree KC
BB the only advice I have for you is; DON'T ARGUE WITH PEOPLE WHO USED TO BE CATHOLIC. They are the hardest to be converted because they already know the truth and don't care about it.

_________________
The Gate of Heaven is the Door of the Confessional.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 1 of 2   [ 23 posts ]   Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: