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 Post subject: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 10:54 pm 
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I thought of posting this on the sticky post about "ministering muslim" but I decided to make it's own thread.


It's been known that the hardest group to convert to Christianity, let alone Catholicism, is muslims. For some years, like many other, I was puzzled as to the reason. But then sometimes ago it just hit me....

The reason it's hard to convert muslims to Christianity is because their Quran bad-mouth Christianity (and Judaism) to no end. Jews and Christians corrupted their holy books. Jews and Christians are hypocrites. Jews and Christians are obstinate sinners. Jews and Christians will try to deceive the righteous (ie. muslims) with their evil scheme. And so forth and so on.

If a missionary comes to Hindu or Buddhist community, at the very least they will be intrigue about this missionary and his believes because they (ie. the missionary and his believes) look foreign to them. With muslim, they already know who the missionary is and what are his believes from their quran, at least from what the Quran said. Which do you think the missionary have better luck of converting?


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:25 am 
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I would think the reason has more to do with the fact that it can result in the complete loss of one's family, at the very least, or being killed, at the most extreme.

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:29 am 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
I would think the reason has more to do with the fact that it can result in the complete loss of one's family, at the very least, or being killed, at the most extreme.


That too :D


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:26 am 
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I think it has a lot to do with the history between the West and Middle East, right up to this day.

I'd expect (just a guess) that Christian missionaries would likely receive a more welcoming reception in say, Indonesia (world's largest Muslim nation) than in Yemen.

The people of the Middle East seem to feel a very long standing resistance to what they see as both military and cultural intrusion from the outside, going all the way back to the Crusades.

It seems not unlike to how conservative Catholics might feel about the relentless assault of secular media upon their own conservative Catholic culture.

The Arab Spring opens a new chapter perhaps? The young people leading these revolutions seem to be embracing some Western ideas, technology, fashion etc.

If true political peace could come to the Middle East, and the West could butt out of it, for a few hundred years, the situation may change. Don't hold your breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 5:06 am 
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Typist, where and when do you think the Catholic Church originated?

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:35 am 
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Danielle wrote:
Typist, where and when do you think the Catholic Church originated?


When, 2000 years ago. Long time ago. The region has never been a fully Christian realm.


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:42 am 
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Typist wrote:
The Arab Spring opens a new chapter perhaps? The young people leading these revolutions seem to be embracing some Western ideas, technology, fashion etc.
I doubt that. If Egypt is any indication, the 'Arab Spring' will radicalize secular muslim nations more, and will turn into the 'Arab Winter.'

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:45 pm 
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Typist wrote:
I think it has a lot to do with the history between the West and Middle East, right up to this day.

I'd expect (just a guess) that Christian missionaries would likely receive a more welcoming reception in say, Indonesia (world's largest Muslim nation) than in Yemen.


You'd be right.

But the reason has to do with the fact that Indonesia is a very secular muslim nation. It's even more secular during the reign of Soeharto, but it's still pretty secular nowadays.

Muslim in Indonesia is like Catholic in the west. Most of them are cradle/cafeteria muslims.


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The Arab Spring opens a new chapter perhaps? The young people leading these revolutions seem to be embracing some Western ideas, technology, fashion etc.


Yet those who rise to power after the so called Arab spring are islamic hardliners.


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:47 pm 
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Typist wrote:
Danielle wrote:
Typist, where and when do you think the Catholic Church originated?


When, 2000 years ago. Long time ago. The region has never been a fully Christian realm.


Are you sure? The only middle eastern region that was not Christian were Iran (Zoroastrian) and Arabian peninsula. The whole middle east were Christian (Catholic to be exact).


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:27 pm 
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Umm...Arabs used to celebrate the "Crusades" as their victory. The Crusades were defensive wars, first called to aid the beleaguered Byzantine Empire

That area now called Turkey was the only area in the Roman Empire that was significantly Christian when Constantine came (50% around the black sea). The Turks took it by aggression.

North Africa? All Christian. The aboriginal Egyptians, Coptics, are all Christians to this day. Palestine? Predominantly Christian. Remember Augustine, that Christian Father? He was African! The Muslim invasion and relentless attack on the West was finally checked in FRANCE. Do people forget that as late as Sept. 11 1683, we defeated a Moslem army at VIENNA Austria.

Military and cultural intrustion describes the warfaring Caliphates more than the Christians of the middle ages. Persian culture was descrated. If you read Persian texts for quite some time they equate Moslem with not Persian/Iranian. The Moslems only overcame them by force.

There are still ancient Christian Churches in the middle East, such as the Coptics, the Ethiopians, the Chaldeans. They are oppressed minorities that wre there before Islam was first invented by the devil worshipper Mohammed, who btw started as a Christian heretic in belief (Nestorianism).

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:11 pm 
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Bishop Fulton Sheen said that to convert a Muslim, talk to them about the Blessed Mother and let her do the rest!

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:48 pm 
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kage_ar wrote:
Bishop Fulton Sheen said that to convert a Muslim, talk to them about the Blessed Mother and let her do the rest!


I don't know.... not much devotion, talks, or even books from the muslim community about Mary. Their attitude toward Mary is pretty much the same as Protestant.


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:37 am 
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beng wrote:
kage_ar wrote:
Bishop Fulton Sheen said that to convert a Muslim, talk to them about the Blessed Mother and let her do the rest!


I don't know.... not much devotion, talks, or even books from the muslim community about Mary. Their attitude toward Mary is pretty much the same as Protestant.

Not quite. They believe her a virgin. So did the reformers, but many modern protestants do not.

There is Persian "iconography" of Mary (as there is of Mohammed and others). She is one of only 8 people to have a whole chapter in the Q'ran named after her, and there are even Moslem shrines dedicated to Mary and about Mary, such as the Hammam Sitti Maryam

She is incredibly revered by Moslems.

Any how to convert a Moslem? Pray and fast. God alone converts.

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:34 am 
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A major reason that they are difficult to convert is the first pillar of Islam.

"There is no God but Allah"

Underlying this is the believe that "God does not beget, nor is he begotten".

They are taught from the cradle to the grave that God has no son, and that to believe he does is to give God an equal or partner. Just as the first pillar of faith is the most important belief, to believe something that grants God partners/equals is the most horrendous sin. This is called shirk.

It is more than just that the Quran badmouths Christians and Christianity.

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:38 am 
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It's more than just badmouthing Christians and Christianity. The religion attacks fundamental Christian beliefs.

We all know the first pillar of Islam "There is no God but Allah". What underlies this is a strong belief in monotheism where to assign any partners or equals to God is the greatest sin is possible, known as shirk. The Quran teaches "God does not beget, nor was he begotten". To Muslims all Christians are polytheists, and there can be no worse. Suggesting to a Muslim that they should accept what they consider polytheism is akin to asking a Christian to convert to satanism.

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:48 am 
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Here is the full quote from Ven. Abp. Sheen:

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Missionaries in the future will, more and more, see that their apostolate among the Muslims will be successful in the measure that they preach Our Lady of Fatima. Mary is the advent to Christ, bringing Christ to the people before Christ himself is born. In any apologetic endeavor, it is always best to start with that which people already accept. Because the Muslims have a devotion to Mary, our missionaries should be satisfied merely to expand and to develop that devotion, wit the full realization that Our Blessed Lady will carry the Muslims the rest of the way to her Divine Son. She is forever a `traitor’ in the sense that she will not accept any devotion for herself, but will always bring anyone who is devoted to her to her Divine Son. As those who lose devotion to her lose belief in the divinity of Christ, so those who intensify devotion to her gradually acquire that belief.

http://robertaconnor.blogspot.com/2006/ ... sheen.html

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:14 am 
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People.... Muslims just don't talk about Mary.

It's really like how your average Protestant doesn't really talk about Mary.


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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:00 am 
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beng wrote:
People.... Muslims just don't talk about Mary.

It's really like how your average Protestant doesn't really talk about Mary.


Maybe the Moslems you have encountered are as uncatechized as many Christians?

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:48 am 
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beng wrote:
People.... Muslims just don't talk about Mary.


Many of them do. Some even go to places like Lourdes.

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During His trials Our Lord would not respond to the chief priests (Mt 14:61), or Herod (Lk 23:9) or Pilate (Jn 19:9). Words had failed. All that could penetrate those hardened hearts was the witness of divine love, the offering of His life to the Father. So also for us — when words fail the greatest way to “win” an argument is by acts of love. - Fr. Paul Scalia

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 Post subject: Re: Why it's hard to convert muslims
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:51 am 
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If I remember the Quran correctly, there is a chapter about Mary, isn't there?

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During His trials Our Lord would not respond to the chief priests (Mt 14:61), or Herod (Lk 23:9) or Pilate (Jn 19:9). Words had failed. All that could penetrate those hardened hearts was the witness of divine love, the offering of His life to the Father. So also for us — when words fail the greatest way to “win” an argument is by acts of love. - Fr. Paul Scalia

There is no law about nougatine. - Chef Stephane Glacier


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