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 Post subject: "Why Catholic and Renew" programs???
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:03 pm 
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Went to Mass in my hometown in Ohio, and the priest talked about a new program they would be implementing in the Fall called "Why Catholic". All I have found out about it, is that it maybe a part of Renew (which I have heard pros and cons about) and that it would strengthen ones faith. Can't seem to pull anything up on the web in any Catholic sites or search sites. Any one know anything about it?
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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 5:08 pm 
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Renew is definately problematic, although I don't know if I am familiar with Why Catholic. You may also want to see who is leading the program and who picked it out, that may give you some idea about it.

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Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:15 pm 
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This sounds interesting, I have not heard of this program, when you find something out please post it!
Dawn


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 10:35 pm 
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It's solid. It's just a guided study of the Catechism, so nothing to object to there.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:55 am 
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Yep. It's a solid program. As was said, it's basically a guided study of the Catechism. It should be interesting. I'm on the Planning Team for my church, and I've done a lot of looking into this program. While Renew as a whole is problematic, Why Catholic? is not. I sincerely hope you consider getting involved with it.

BTW bejo, where in Ohio are you from? The reason I ask is you mentioned the program was going to be implemented in your church in the fall. It's the same with mine. Just was curious to find out how close we are to each other.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:28 pm 
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Wilco, bejo,

Just because they say its a guided study of the Catechism doesn't make it solid. :)

First "Disciples In Mission", now "Why Catholic". If its from the Renew crowd STAY AWAY. Disciples In Mission was a watered down version of Renew, which had some pagan prayers and practices in it. Why Catholic would probably be the same thing. If its associated with Renew in ANY way, stay away, no matter how good it sounds.

They are very sneaky in what they impliment. The Disciples in Mission programs seemed wonderful to everyone, and no one noticed that there were wiccan type practices in it, though much more subtle than those found in Renew, which were pretty blatant.

Stay away, you can learn much more here on this board and you can watch Fr. Corapi explain the Catechism to you on EWTN every Sunday evening. Play it safe.

God Bless,
Doug


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:32 pm 
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Quote:
First "Disciples In Mission", now "Why Catholic". If its from the Renew crowd STAY AWAY. Disciples In Mission was a watered down version of Renew, which had some pagan prayers and practices in it. Why Catholic would probably be the same thing. If its associated with Renew in ANY way, stay away, no matter how good it sounds.


I second this recommendation. If it is from the Renew crowd it would be better to err on the side of caution. Just because someone says they are expounding the catechism doesn't mean that they really are. Scripture is twisted by many people.....the catechism can be twisted as well.

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Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 9:32 am 
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Well....I may have just committed one of the biggest gaffes of my life. :?

Seriously though, I didn't think it sounded all that bad. As I said before, I even volunteered to help get it started in my church. Is it better to stay away altogether, or can the program still work if you find the right people to lead it? I mean people who are strong in the Catechism and their faith, and can make sense of what the program tries to tell us.

Doug, bonaventure,

Thanks for the heads up. I'll watch myself and try to limit my involvement.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:35 pm 
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Quote:
Seriously though, I didn't think it sounded all that bad.


Thats the catch. It won't sound bad. In fact it will sound very good. Its the subtle things that lay hidden. We were approached by our former parish to lead a group in the Disciples in Mission program. We had never heard of it, so we said we wanted to see the materials. Lots of stuff that seemed harmless, but every now and then hints of paganism were found, plus we did some research and found it was associated with the people involved with Renew.

If its in any way associated with Renew, its bad. You then have to step away or go into it looking for problems and pointing the problems out to your group. If its not associated with Renew, then it may be something decent, although that is rarely the case with these kinds of things. Most of these things are agenda driven.

Can you give a list of some of the people who put "Why Catholic" together? Are names in the front of the workbook?

Look for buzz words like "faith community", "worship space", etc. Often, but not always, there will be no mention of God as Father which is part of the feminist agenda.

These small group studies like Renew, Disciples in Mission, and probably this too are promoted by the AMchurch crowd. "We are church" doesn't fly in the Catholic Church as it subverts Church authority.

Sorry if I'm too negative, but I'm speaking from experience here. :D

God Bless,
Doug


Last edited by Doug C. on Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:37 pm 
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If you are commited to it and can't get out of it, just keep your eyes open for anything that even hints of sounding different, especially if you lead a group. Skip over it if it sounds different. Also be careful of how they interpret the Catechism.

Do you have a link to this program? I couldn't find anything in a Google search. Is there a web link on the study book?

God Bless,
Doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:55 pm 
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I participated in a Renew program years ago, and never knew that it was as bad as you all say. I don't think Renew is still used frequently, but I probably has been the prototype for other similar programs, and "Why Catholic?" may be one of them.

The critique that the USCCB made (which I just skimmed through) praised many aspects of Renew but felt its didactic component was weak and that the emphasis on the Eucharist as meal trivialized the Eucharist. They also felt it promoted a generic Christianity.

www.ourladyswarriors.org/renew/nccborig.htm

When I attended Renew, I felt that its emphasis on community, on faith in action, and on experiencing God's presence in our lives were balancing out other aspects of Catholic tradition that had heretofore been quite neglected.

Only attending the Renew program would be like having a salad composed entirely of carrots, but I am absolutely convinced that programs like Renew are helpful to many people. And I did note that none of the bishops said the program should be trashed, just that components of it should be strengthened or modified.

I am sure there are some other Catholic programs that would be strengthened by adopting some of the strengths in the Renew program.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:26 pm 
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Doug C,

Here's a link to RENEW.

www.renewintl.org

Here's a link to the Why Catholic? program

www.whycatholic.org

Thank you for voicing your concerns about both of them. I hope the websites help in some way. I appreciate your looking out for us.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:43 pm 
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Wilco, if you are one of the people who are in charge, it may be a good idea to stay on and point out any errors to those who don't know as much about the faith. I did find this quote fron the Sacraments book


Quote:
Become more conscious of your responses at the liturgy. (For example, when you respond, "And also with you," be conscious that God is truly with the presider and all of us as a community of faith.)


The Priest is not a presider. IMHO this is one the indicators that Doug mentioned above.

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Whence are we to find words enough fully to tell the happiness of that marriage which the Church cements, and the Eucharistic oblation confirms, and the benediction signs and seals; which angels carry back the news of to heaven, which the Father holds as ratified? -Tertullian

Uniformity with the Will of God by St. Alphonsus Liguori


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:01 pm 
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Wilco,

Went to the website and sure enough if you click on the links, Renew International is the first thing seen. Point this out to your pastor right away and try not to involve yourself if you don't know what to look for. If you are rock solid in Church teaching you may want to stick with it and pick it apart as Boneventure suggested.

Allegro, Renew had a wiccan prayer in it, and it refused to acknowledge God as Father because of the feminist agenda involved. Thats just the tip of the iceberg. The list of names of those who put it together are like a whos who of Catholic discedents.

Of course its all about community. Thats what they strive for - get away from your pastor and Church authority. "Faith community" is a red flag right away.

God Bless,
Doug


Last edited by Doug C. on Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:11 pm 
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From the website, this seems innocent enough, correct:

Quote:
We are created in the image of God because we are able to relate freely to others and form community with them, just as the three Divine Persons relate to each other and live in a loving community.


Translation: Don't judge others ie, homosexuals and disadents. We all sin. We should accept them AND their sin - they don't believe in loving the sinner AND hating the sin.

How do I know that? I've read enough of the stuff from those who put this crap together. Homosexuality is to be accepted according to them. This also covers feminists who want to be priests and priests who want to marry.

Just think about what they call themselves: Renew. They want a renewal. Who is "they"? Dissadents, some of whom have been excommunicated for promoting homosexuality, feminism, etc. This is what their renewal is about.

Again, sorry if I sound like a know it all, but I have researched this and have experienced it in our old parish.

God Bless,
Doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:23 pm 
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Bonaventure is right about "presider". Thats another buzz word with these people. They refuse to acknowledge "father" or "priest" because of the feminist agenda involved. Again, other words to look for "small faith community", "table" instead of "altar", "Creator" instead of "Father", "community banquet" instead of "Holy Communion", etc.

God Bless,
Doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 5:27 pm 
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Doug,

No worries, bro. The more I learn about the RENEW organization and their programs, the better off I'll be. Again, thank you so much for your input on this program and the organization. I think I'll ride it out and try to pick apart the program as it rolls along. Any other input you (or anyone else) has would be greatly appreciated!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:40 pm 
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Thanks for all your input, and the sites. I shall have to let my family know about it, and to be vigilant. Renew is at the Tallahassee parish of Good Shephard where I go sometimes for a great Bible Study class. We all have to be aware at all times.
Doug--what is a wiccan prayer? Sure would like to know what to keep my eyes out for.
Thanks, bejo


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:44 pm 
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Wilco,

If I can do some research and present enough evidence for your pastor, do you think he would do away with the program? Some priests don't realize how dangerous this kind of stuff is, while others know exactly what it is and endorse it.

If you ride it out, be very wary of how subtly they work things in and look out for those buzz words. and like I said, if anything at all seems the least bit fishy, point it out to everyone.

Also, I'd be VERY watchful as to how they interpret the Catechism. Anytime something seems to emphasize "community", immedietly go to where the Catechism speaks about Church. Not "we are church", but an authoratative Church.

Correct words like "presider", "community banquet", "table" instead of "altar" etc. Beware though, some may not take kindly to this. I guess thats why this is such hot button for me. We lost some friends at our old parish when we pointed to where Disciples in Mission came from. In fact we were asked to leave the parish, which ended up being a great blessing. You have to stand for whats right though.

These "small faith communities" are dangerous because often the authoratative source is the workbook with an agenda, not a pastor leading the group.

Pray constantly to our Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit to guide you through this.

God Bless,
Doug


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2005 7:49 pm 
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Bejo,

Quote:
Doug--what is a wiccan prayer? Sure would like to know what to keep my eyes out for.


It was a prayer in the original Renew program. Wicca is a pagan religion. The prayer invoked the "great spirits" of the north, south, east, and west.

The Disciples in Mission program advocated holding a rock and praying for forgiveness and then realizing that you had been forgiven instead of teaching about or suggesting Confession.

Most people wouldn't think twice about holding a rock and asking for forgiveness. Thats what I mean - very subtle stuff.

Keep your eyes out for what I mentioned in the above posts, and what Bonaventure pointed out. Like I said though, sometimes its so subtle that you don't even notice.

God Bless,
Doug


Last edited by Doug C. on Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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