See what you can find about the Raptor's record at Red Flag, in the past few years.

GKC

I think this is the most beautiful aircraft made by the USAF.

We do not have such an aircraft.

And I worked on the program.

GKC

That's not what Bob Lazar said. (kidding)

SR71 Blackbird -

Fastest bird ever made.

These are awesome photos.


High Flight
Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
of sun-split clouds, — and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of — wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,

I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air. . . .

Up, up the long, delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or ever eagle flew —
And, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face of God.
— John Gillespie Magee, Jr

This http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... aribou.jpg was, by far, my favorite in Vietnam! Went anywhere, was easy to fly, and I even was in one when it landed on a rice paddy road!

Wasn't the F-4 plagued with problems in Vietnam?

What sort of problems?

GKC

It was the early air-to-air missiles, the AIM-7 specifically, that gave the F-4 drivers, ulcers. The F-4 was designed to be a BVR (Beyond visual range) killer (all early versions had no gun.) with a powerful radar and missiles that would strike multiple targets far beyond the pilot's vision. The missiles were new and had lots of teething problems, the conditions of south-east Asia were awful on their electronics, and the ROE's were restrictive. That combined to create a very, very, poor record of kills in the first half of the war. The problems were eventually, largely overcome and with better air combat manoeuvring training, ROE's, tactics, etc. the F-4/missle combo became the best in the world. It is still flying active combat missions in several air forces, after a half century of service.

And retired

Looks like DF has the answer covered much better than I could have. My answer was going to be: I remember reading that a lot of pilots complained about this aircraft and did not think too highly of it.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Hence, 20MM gun pods and Red Flag.

What the AF gets for accepting a Navy bird. It's a big, clunky, ugly honker, but got the job done, eventually.

GKC

TDY to Wright-Pat, I recall watching the SR-71 that was arriving for display at the AF Museum touch down a few yards in front of the car I was in. Highlander may recall it too, but it was years ago.

GKC

True, it manoeuvred like a 4x4 in mud but the F-4 system was a new concept in air combat that when you think about it, has pretty much become the norm. The F-15, with it's high manoeuvrability and it's gun, has scored dozens of kills in real world combat.......almost zero of which were in manoeuvring fights with it's gun. Take the Gulf War. Every single air to air kill but three, were F-15 kills, and almost every one with an AIM-7. There was not one guns kill and only two that were close enough for the AIM-9. The F-4 concept was great, just a bit before it's time.

And adding the SUU 16 or 23 really didn't make the F-4 a killer. Most of their kills. in the end, were missiles.

With a really efficient missile in hand, maneuverability is more a defensive concept.

GKC

The only 'Blackbird' recognize is owned by Charles Xavier.

Supermarine Spitfire...

As in post #3 in the thread.

GKC

Sent this to my brother in law...

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/listing?id=1137389