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 Post subject: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:52 pm 
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Handmaids of the Lord
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I am curious--does it make a difference if the priest says "May the Lord Bless us..." rather than "May the Lord Bless you..."?

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:55 pm 
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Sadly, yes. Even set aside the fact that a priest ought not change the words of the liturgy at his own whim:

"May Almighty God bless you" is spoken in persona Christi. "May Almighty God bless us" is just a personal petition. I don't know how to quantify the actual graces you're missing out on because of this, but they are real.

That said, pray for the priest who does this. I know a very good priest who does it because that's what he was taught to do.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 11:11 am 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Sadly, yes. Even set aside the fact that a priest ought not change the words of the liturgy at his own whim:

"May Almighty God bless you" is spoken in persona Christi. "May Almighty God bless us" is just a personal petition. I don't know how to quantify the actual graces you're missing out on because of this, but they are real.

That said, pray for the priest who does this. I know a very good priest who does it because that's what he was taught to do.

To build on Fr. Kenobi's comments, consider the blessings at the end of Morning and Evening Prayer of the LOTH. The rubrics mention two cases.

(1) "If a priest or deacon presides, he dismisses the people."
LOTH wrote:
The Lord be with you.
--And also with you.

May almighty God bless you,
the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit.


(2)"In the absence of a priest or deacon and in individual recitation, Morning Prayer [Evening Prayer] concludes"
LOTH wrote:
May the Lord bless us,
protect us from all evil
and bring us to everlasting life.
--Amen



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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2012 9:22 pm 
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You have got to be kidding!?!?! Thinking that graces are any more or less because of the use of words by the priest in a blessing at the end of Mass is quite 'anal.' Loosen thy sphincter, Obi-Wan Kenobi!!


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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:58 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
You have got to be kidding!?!?! Thinking that graces are any more or less because of the use of words by the priest in a blessing at the end of Mass is quite 'anal.' Loosen thy sphincter, Obi-Wan Kenobi!!


Obi-wan Kenobi is a Catholic priest, in case you didn't realize that.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:33 am 
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If the priest said, "Bippity-boppity-boo" while waving good-bye at the end of Mass, would that affect the blessing? I can't imagine you would say that it wouldn't. So what the priest says and what the priest does do in fact make a difference with respect to the blessing.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:28 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
You have got to be kidding!?!?! Thinking that graces are any more or less because of the use of words by the priest in a blessing at the end of Mass is quite 'anal.' Loosen thy sphincter, Obi-Wan Kenobi!!


Your very first post on this board is rude and judgmental. And you expect us to listen to your [incorrect] opinion?

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:12 am 
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I don't think saying "Bippity-boppity-boo" is a blessing at all. Do you?!?! Yet you use that as your example. Hmmm!!

I am told, Obi-Wan, that you are a priest. Unfortunately, we know all too well that such a vocation and position in life, in an of itself, does not protect one from error, and in this case, hyperbole. And some people (not just priests) get so caught up in emphasizing a rubric or rule when telling others how to practice their religion (such as thinking a minor word change makes a difference in the resulting blessing of the people), that they forget about relationship to God and to people in the practice of their faith.

Although I try to consider seriously what comes from the pulpit and from the church's hierarchy, I'm not someone who follows blindly (you would perhaps say 'obediently') everything that comes from the institutionalize church. Lord knows there are plenty of examples of error there. I do try to follow what I believe to be Jesus' teachings, and I have to believe you do, too. But my original statement still stands. Take a second look at your "up tight" perspective, Obi-Wan.


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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:14 am 
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Oh goodness, here we go.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 8:47 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
I don't think saying "Bippity-boppity-boo" is a blessing at all. Do you?!?! Yet you use that as your example. Hmmm!!

I am told, Obi-Wan, that you are a priest. Unfortunately, we know all too well that such a vocation and position in life, in an of itself, does not protect one from error, and in this case, hyperbole. And some people (not just priests) get so caught up in emphasizing a rubric or rule when telling others how to practice their religion (such as thinking a minor word change makes a difference in the resulting blessing of the people), that they forget about relationship to God and to people in the practice of their faith.

Although I try to consider seriously what comes from the pulpit and from the church's hierarchy, I'm not someone who follows blindly (you would perhaps say 'obediently') everything that comes from the institutionalize church. Lord knows there are plenty of examples of error there. I do try to follow what I believe to be Jesus' teachings, and I have to believe you do, too. But my original statement still stands. Take a second look at your "up tight" perspective, Obi-Wan.



May I suggest a class in anger management? Your reaction seems a bit excessive.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:15 am 
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Benedetta wrote:
Oh goodness, here we go.


yep...another of those relationship is more important than Church types ...wonder if he/she has seen the relationship vs religion thread yet

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:56 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
such as thinking a minor word change makes a difference in the resulting blessing of the people

"May you be baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Valid?

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:20 am 
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If you are willing to stop name-calling, I am perfectly willing to continue to discuss. Otherwise, I have better uses for my time.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 10:22 am 
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IOW, I am more than willing to explain the reason for my answer, but not if I have to deal with taunts along the way.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:45 am 
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St. Brigid wrote:
I am curious--does it make a difference if the priest says "May the Lord Bless us..." rather than "May the Lord Bless you..."?


Big difference. The actual Latin words are:

Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus,
Pater, et Filius, (Cross-Sign) et Spiritus Sanctus.

So, the correct translation is:

May almighty God bless you,
the Father, and the Son, (Cross-Sign) and the Holy Spirit.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:19 pm 
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Words have meaning. If you use different words then you mean different things. If you mean different things then there will be different implications.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 3:25 pm 
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Only uptight anal people think that words matter.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:56 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
You have got to be kidding!?!?! Thinking that graces are any more or less because of the use of words by the priest in a blessing at the end of Mass is quite 'anal.' Loosen thy sphincter, Obi-Wan Kenobi!!


Really? This is how you want to introduce yourself to this board? You're going to pull out a thread that's almost a full year old just so you can say something snarky about someone you don't even know, who also happens to be a priest? Really? Son, you might want to read more threads before you jump into another one and put both feet in your mouth.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 1:37 am 
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cdman875 wrote:
I don't think saying "Bippity-boppity-boo" is a blessing at all. Do you?!?! Yet you use that as your example. Hmmm!!

I am told, Obi-Wan, that you are a priest. Unfortunately, we know all too well that such a vocation and position in life, in an of itself, does not protect one from error, and in this case, hyperbole. And some people (not just priests) get so caught up in emphasizing a rubric or rule when telling others how to practice their religion (such as thinking a minor word change makes a difference in the resulting blessing of the people), that they forget about relationship to God and to people in the practice of their faith.

Although I try to consider seriously what comes from the pulpit and from the church's hierarchy, I'm not someone who follows blindly (you would perhaps say 'obediently') everything that comes from the institutionalize church. Lord knows there are plenty of examples of error there. I do try to follow what I believe to be Jesus' teachings, and I have to believe you do, too. But my original statement still stands. Take a second look at your "up tight" perspective, Obi-Wan.


I suspect you have anthropocentric tendencies when it comes to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the priesthood.

Firstly, as pointed out above, the priest works in the person of Christ when giving the blessing. The usage of “bless us” is at odds with this Catholic doctrine. With this false formula the priest becomes a mere presider instead of one acting in place of Christ. So not only is proper doctrine expressed in the correct formula but also all present realize the important significance of the priest. “May Almighty God Bless you” emphasizes his special priestly role, distinguishing himself from the laity.

Secondly, with the usage of the correct formulas and rubrics comes unity throughout the Church at large. Simply making up words for the Mass helps to eat away at one of the fours marks of the Church; her being “one.” Disunity is an offense to Christ and cause for chaos and abuse. Abuse is irreverence and spawns misconceptions, ignorance and error. So one Catholic church in one town can have vastly different liturgies and homilies than the one the next town over (both the words of the Mass and the external ritual communicate doctrine either explicitly or implicitly – reverent Masses demonstrate the Sacrifice of the Mass the Real Presence of Christ, abuses show a lack of understating what the Mass is and what the priesthood is).

Thirdly, properly following rubrics from both the perspective of the priest and people renders holy obedience towards the Church and towards God Himself. The tendency to shun rubrics and proper forms at Mass is rooted in erroneous perceptions on the primary function of the Mass and the strange modern obsession with participation (that is, false participation which reduces the Mass into a man-centered event, as opposed to authentic participation). In a man-centered Mass the rubrics matter little because the celebrant thinks creatively aids the people in some way instead of focusing on God and obeying proper authority.

Lastly and tied into number three, proper rubrics strike at the greatest capital sin; pride. Pride is present in all sin and caused the fall of man. We would benefit much with holy obedience and theocentric liturgies instead of the “creative” messes we see today.

Now, given the explanation here, it is apparent that we are not following “blindly.” Every rubric, rule, custom etc. has a purpose whether explicitly or implicitly that benefits the entire Church in obtaining the Catholicity she most desperately needs, holy obedience and of course humility, the remedy for all sin.

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 Post subject: Re: Wording of the Final Blessing at Mass
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:53 am 
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Am I the only one here thinking about Bill Clinton and the meaning of the word "is?"

In any event, thank you Obi for your insights - having a priest around can be quite helpful :-)

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