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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:38 pm 
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would you consider inviting her to Mass at your parish so she can see the difference (right vs wrong)

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:22 pm 
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Sounds that "Mass" was supported by Bishop Gumbleton and Call to Action, too.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 3:29 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
Jakub wrote:
If this did indeed occur within the Detroit Archdiocese then I would suggest that they should concentrate on internal liturgical matters instead of the cyber world...


it came from an eye witness to the liturgy... do you doubt what she saw?


Nope...living within the Archdiocese of Los Angeles I have seen some weird stuff

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:33 pm 
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faithfulservant wrote:
would you consider inviting her to Mass at your parish so she can see the difference (right vs wrong)

We live approximately 40 minutes apart, so I would have more success (possibly) inviting her to one of the other Detroit parishes (prett much the halfway point). There is one parish a couple blocks from hers, and I've told her how beautiful I think this parish is; but I've never been to Mass there.

I know she's been to Mass elsewhere. She went to the same Catholic high school as me. She just didn't keep up with Mass attendance.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 3:28 am 
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faithfulservant wrote:
would you consider inviting her to Mass at your parish so she can see the difference (right vs wrong)


not a bad idea!! nice one!!

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:09 am 
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MySweetLord wrote:
...She loves that parish. She had been away from the Mass for a few years, and this place brings her a sense of peace. She is truly unaware of how far the abuse went. ...
If it gives her a sense of peace, then it must be OK. That it may not have been a Mass is trivial in comparison.

Excuse the sarcasm. I will omit my usual comments on modernity. And secularism.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:40 am 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Bagheera wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
It wouldn't hurt to go back for objective evidence and send the pictures to the Archbishop with the letter. Validity is difficult to determine. I would think it would depend on whether the priest actually prayed the Eucharistic prayer. I don't think just part of it counts, especially if he didn't intend to say the whole thing. It's different than when a priest simply messes up.

It depends on whether or not he said the Words of Institution.

I believe some theologians will argue that the words alone are insufficient if they aren't situated in what is a clear attempt to celebrate Mass according to a permitted rite of the Church.

Right, because such would manifest (or so the argument goes) contrary intention....


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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:43 am 
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At the very least, it hinders the Church from remedying any innocent defect. No ecclesia supplens need apply.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:42 am 
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Jakub wrote:
If this did indeed occur within the Detroit Archdiocese then I would suggest that they should concentrate on internal liturgical matters instead of the cyber world...

1. This is more than a liturgical abuse

but

2. Why must you trash an orthodox bishop like Vigneron? You know what, this crap happens in many dioceses (not in many parishes...not by any means) without the bishop really ever knowing or knowing enough to do anything

I went to a Mass in Austria that had women come up to concelebrate. But the very day before the Mass not only lacked any and all abuses, there was chant and people genuflecting to be blessed and a bunch of traditional elements. Tell me that the bishop could ever prove what was happening even if he knew..

3. I suggest we focus on the OP, and not armchairing the bishop, to whom we should look as to Christ in obedience. I think this protestant always second guessing bishops leads to nothing but ruin

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:59 am 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Jakub wrote:
If this did indeed occur within the Detroit Archdiocese then I would suggest that they should concentrate on internal liturgical matters instead of the cyber world...

1. This is more than a liturgical abuse

but

2. Why must you trash an orthodox bishop like Vigneron? You know what, this crap happens in many dioceses (not in many parishes...not by any means) without the bishop really ever knowing or knowing enough to do anything

I went to a Mass in Austria that had women come up to concelebrate. But the very day before the Mass not only lacked any and all abuses, there was chant and people genuflecting to be blessed and a bunch of traditional elements. Tell me that the bishop could ever prove what was happening even if he knew..

3. I suggest we focus on the OP, and not armchairing the bishop, to whom we should look as to Christ in obedience. I think this protestant always second guessing bishops leads to nothing but ruin


i saw it differently.. perhaps to simplified.. the way i saw it, between going after voris and this situation, i think this situation is a bit more serious than voris.. perhaps the bishop has more info on voris than we do, but then again, it seems we (for example, ME, all the way in Brazil) have more info about what is going on in a church in his diocese..

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Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:09 am 
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Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:10 am 
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Benedetta wrote:
Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?


well who do we go to with issues like this?

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:13 am 
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Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?


well who do we go to with issues like this?


Issues like what? This disturbing Mass should be reported to the Bishop. What the Bishop does about it, and what he does about Voris, are up to him. It's not our job to "go to" anyone about that or second guess it.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:33 am 
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Benedetta wrote:
Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?


well who do we go to with issues like this?


Issues like what? This disturbing Mass should be reported to the Bishop. What the Bishop does about it, and what he does about Voris, are up to him. It's not our job to "go to" anyone about that or second guess it.


So what's the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei for? As I understand it, we can write to them if the Bishop does not resolve the issue.

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:39 am 
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Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?


well who do we go to with issues like this?


Issues like what? This disturbing Mass should be reported to the Bishop. What the Bishop does about it, and what he does about Voris, are up to him. It's not our job to "go to" anyone about that or second guess it.


So what's the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei for? As I understand it, we can write to them if the Bishop does not resolve the issue.


Tell me again what your issue is? You seem to be complaining that Bishop should be focusing on one thing instead of another. THAT is what I think you have no business complaining/making judgments about.

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:43 am 
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Benedetta wrote:
Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Cubano wrote:
Benedetta wrote:
Ugh why do so many Catholics think they have the right to sit around on the internet and opine about what they think the Bishops should and should not be doing?


well who do we go to with issues like this?


Issues like what? This disturbing Mass should be reported to the Bishop. What the Bishop does about it, and what he does about Voris, are up to him. It's not our job to "go to" anyone about that or second guess it.


So what's the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei for? As I understand it, we can write to them if the Bishop does not resolve the issue.


Tell me again what your issue is? You seem to be complaining that Bishop should be focusing on one thing instead of another. THAT is what I think you have no business complaining/making judgments about.


I just think THIS issue about the church is a "bigger fish to fry" than Voris, but that's just me. I did say that the Bishop MAY HAVE more info on Voris than we do. I think you may be mistaking me for someone else. That being said, I do think we can opine if a Bishop has addressed an issue or not, and if the Bishop does not resolve it, Ecclesia Dei can tell us if the Bishop acted correctly or not.

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Cubano wrote:

I just think THIS issue about the church is a "bigger fish to fry" than Voris, but that's just me. I did say that the Bishop MAY HAVE more info on Voris than we do. I think you may be mistaking me for someone else. That being said, I do think we can opine if a Bishop has addressed an issue or not, and if the Bishop does not resolve it, Ecclesia Dei can tell us if the Bishop acted correctly or not.

I think you are underestimating how big a fish Voris truly is. On average, he has one viewer in every county in the U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:17 pm 
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Bombadil wrote:
Cubano wrote:

I just think THIS issue about the church is a "bigger fish to fry" than Voris, but that's just me. I did say that the Bishop MAY HAVE more info on Voris than we do. I think you may be mistaking me for someone else. That being said, I do think we can opine if a Bishop has addressed an issue or not, and if the Bishop does not resolve it, Ecclesia Dei can tell us if the Bishop acted correctly or not.

I think you are underestimating how big a fish Voris truly is. On average, he has one viewer in every county in the U.S.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1


what's that, 57 by Obama's count?

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Where is the invisible hand when it is needed to administer a good smack?!?
St. Josemaría Escrivá:
These world crises are crises of saints

Therefore, if God wills that we be struck down by some affliction, take it as
a sign that he considers us mature enough to be associated even more closely
with his redeeming Cross.


Stand up against lies heresy and distortion: I DON'T BELIEVE Michael Sean Winters or NCR Online


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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:27 pm 
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that was states , not counties according to the anointed one :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Women "Priests" at Mass Today
PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:27 pm 
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3500 for y'all not from around here.

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