I attended Mass in another town last week. The priest talked about the new translation of the Roman Missal, discussing how And also with you is going to be replaced by And with your spirit.

Part of me is a little resistant to make the change. The old way is like a comfortable blanket and won't be easy to give up. Of course I'll comply because this is coming from Rome, but I know it's going to take a while for And with your spirit to come naturally.

The priest was a good salesman though, explaining the new wording is more reflective of the original Latin. He said for the last forty years the And also was you has been peculiar to the English translation. Non-English translations have never stopped using And With Your Spirit. In the light of this information I'm sold.

Parishes aren't allowed to make the change until . . . I can't remember the date. Somebody fill me in. The priest had to correct the congregation because in their zeal they tried to make the change right away, heh heh.

_________

The Lord be with you. And with your spirit.

Peace be with you. And with your spirit.

Just practicing.

november 27...first week of advent

I am so glad we have been given permission to begin learning the changes now. It does take some
time, and it is confusing. Our priest is away. So having a visiting priest made it even a
bit more complicated yesterday evening ... although I streamed the Mass from our parish today
and the visiting priest and laity were more "on the same page today."

L.

we have had the words to the new Gloria in our worship aide the last 2 weeks...not this week...guess they figured that was enough and we should have it memorized by now

The Archdiocese of Atlanta has provided the parishes with laminated sheets that contain all of the changes. We reviewed them for the first time today. We will start practicing the Gloria before Advent so that when we sing it on Christmas, we will be familiar. We won't make any changes during Mass until Advent.

Lisa

Because the music is changing too -- the music cues are not there -- the changes cause us to
have to really think about where we are in the Mass, and what our responses need to be.
Added to that by some people saying one thing and others saying another ...

L.

We in England _ Wales started at the beginning of September. My problem is that I somehow do not seem able to stop myself saying "and with thy spirit" I suppose my mind is automatically going back to seeing those words on the English side of the missal way back when I used to go to Mass as a young teen.

And since we started using the new translation, we have only said the Confiteor once which bugs me. That time I was,as far as I could see, the only person striking my breast. Ah well, I'm the only one who bows in the Creed too.

[joke]

Your priest is only partially correct.

While "the And also was [WITH, actually] you has been peculiar to the English translation" is indeed correct, not a single "Non-English translation" has ever used "And With Your Spirit". They do use something equivalent to that but if they did use "And With Your Spirit", they'd be English translations!

[/joke]

Edward Pothier

Yes, I was in Italy this month. People replied: "E con il tuo spirito."

The tragedy was that they accepted such a horribly sloppy translation from the Latin in the first place.

I came into the Church as a convert well before Vatican II. I learned the Mass, bot the Ordinary and the proper in Latin, and what it meant. When I first heard the new "English Mass", I was appalled! It did NOT say what the original Latin had said at all. It was essentially, "whatever feels good to us now" kind of translation.

It's about time that we finally get a valid translation of the Tridentine prayers. Every language BUT English has had this all along, it was ONLY the English version that had the variation.

It was pope John Paul II that instigated this. he celebrated the Mass in English, and he knew that something was wrong. So, he studied the Latin version, the Polish version, the German version and compared them to the English version. He studied this, compared the translations, and then ordered that a new translation be made in English that actually translated those original Latin prayers as faithfully as possible, and not into what someone thought they "should" say.

Take just the "And with your spirit". The Latin version is "Et cum spirito tou", which directly says, "And with spirit you". (tuo is the plural version of you ). To put that into understandable English, you would say, "And with your spirit".

So, just how did such a simple declarative sentence get changed into "And also with you"?

Yes, it may be a bit difficult for some to get used to this. I am 68 years old, and to me, it is as if my Church is finally coming back home again.

When I want to be pedantic or joking, I can argue that the upcoming translation still doesn't get it exactly right on the "Et cum spiritu tuo"!

The "tuo" is the Latin second person singular. Generally in English today (with the possible exception of particularly well-known prayers such as the "Our Father" and "Hail Mary") we do not distinguish between the second person singular and plural forms but use the plural forms (You, Your, etc.) for both.

But I am just as happy the new translation does not insist on "And with thy spirit".


Edward Pothier

I hear all the older ladies in the choir around me saying 'THY' spirit, so I think it's a common 'problem'

For those of you who use an IPhone/IPad/IPod Touch, IMissal has just been updated to show the changes. And you can switch between the 2nd & 3d Editions in settings

Pax Christi

What's so scary about "thy"?

does 'thy' have a latin equivalent? just curious...

Yes, it is first person singular just like the Latin.

Tuo, tua, tuam, tuum

what does that translate to?

Thy

all four words?

Remember that Latin is inflected.