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 Post subject: vir probatus
PostPosted: Fri Dec 18, 2009 3:29 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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I finished reading "Salt of the Earth" and found this fascinating paragraph towards the end:


Quote:
Future of the Church – Church of the Future

In 1970, in an essay on “Faith and the Future”, you spoke of a Church that would also have new forms of office. That the Church would, for example, ordain as priests Christians in professions who have proven themselves.

I had foreseen then, if one may put it that way, that the Church would become small, that one day she would become a Church comprising a minority of society and that she could then no longer continue with the large institutions and organizations that she has but would have to organize herself on a more modest scale. In that connection I had thought that when that happened, then, next to those priests who are ordained as young men, proven men from the professions could also advance, that, in any case, diverse forms of office would take shape. I think that this was correct insofar as the Church as to adjust herself gradually to a minority position, to another position in society. Also correct was the prediction that in particular unsalaried ministries would probably be on the rise. To what extent, then, there will be viri probati (“proven men” who come from another profession) is another question. I mean, the whole ancient church lived on the vir probatus. Since there were not yet seminaries, she generally called men to the priesthood who had had another profession. However, from about the second or third century on they subsequently renounced marriage. Let’s leave open what forms will develop in this area. But the irreplaceability of the priesthood and of the deep inner connection between celibacy and priesthood are constants.

Salt of the Earth, the Church at the End of the Millennium, An Interview with Peter Seewald, Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, 1995


One thing I don't know that is addressed in Anglicanorum Cœtibus or the (Complementary Norms) is what the Anglicans refer to as a "Canon 9 priest." The Anglicans have allowed ordination to limited faculties without seminary through a non-seminary program like what Catholic permanant deacons go through (and in some cases, the same programs). Since converting to the Catholic Church, that method has struck me as a way to assist the vocations pinch. I didn't know that the Holy Father had already articulated to some extent a related vision. interesting.

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"You seek me", St. Augustine comments, "for the flesh, not for the spirit. How many seek Jesus for no other purpose than that He may do them good in this present life! [...] Scarcely ever is Jesus sought for Jesus' sake" (In Ioann. Evang, 25, 10).

“therefore is my people led away captive, because they have not knowledge … therefore hath hell enlarged her mouth without any bounds” (Is 5:13-14).

But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (Mt 24:13)


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 Post subject: Re: vir probatus
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 12:07 pm 
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This is an understandably older post, but I couldn't help but comment! I actually got done reading Adrian Walker's interview "Salt of the Earth" and I found it to be enriching and intriguing! Upon looking for articles and discussions, I found this thread. I'm actually rather shocked that no one else has added more to this discussion! The interview with Peter Seewald is extremely interesting!

If I may add my own tidbit, there was one singular question that stuck out in my mind by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger :

Quote:
Has Christianity really brought salvation, has it brought redemption, or hasn't it actually remained fruitless? Hasn't Christianity perhaps by now lost its power?


The reason I find this statement/question so intriguing is because we can ALL ask ourselves this question and obtain a different answer each time. Christianity holds different meaning to different people. In fact, how would one really ANALYZE this question? What does this question even mean? Is salvation is a continuous process? Definitely something to think about!

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 Post subject: Re: vir probatus
PostPosted: Tue Mar 22, 2011 8:42 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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ForeverCatholic wrote:
This is an understandably older post, but I couldn't help but comment! I actually got done reading Adrian Walker's interview "Salt of the Earth" and I found it to be enriching and intriguing! Upon looking for articles and discussions, I found this thread. I'm actually rather shocked that no one else has added more to this discussion! The interview with Peter Seewald is extremely interesting!

If I may add my own tidbit, there was one singular question that stuck out in my mind by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger :

Quote:
Has Christianity really brought salvation, has it brought redemption, or hasn't it actually remained fruitless? Hasn't Christianity perhaps by now lost its power?


The reason I find this statement/question so intriguing is because we can ALL ask ourselves this question and obtain a different answer each time. Christianity holds different meaning to different people. In fact, how would one really ANALYZE this question? What does this question even mean? Is salvation is a continuous process? Definitely something to think about!


I for one can testify that the faith has not been fruitless, nor has it lost its power. Sewald well articulates the world's view of it; that it should be judged by worldly standards and found wanting. Yet, like the finger of God writing on an ancient wall, it still judges the world and finds the world wanting. Our hearts are still restless, and they still only find rest in God. If the world fails to recognize the fruit of redemption and the power of salvation, it is because it first did not recognize Him when He walked among them. Yet He brought them for those who would receive Him. Oh, the mystery and power of God, and the mystery of iniquity behind which we hide.

As this is the Vocations forum, the purpose of my original post was the particular quote from the Holy Father regarding raising "worthy men" to Holy Orders as opposed to the current seminary system; Both have served well, both are fraught with problems. And since tomorrow is the feast of one of my favorite saints, a layman who found himself thrust into Holy Orders, I recommend reading:

St Alphonsus Turibius, Confessor, Archbishop of Lima 1538-1606
http://www.ewtn.com/library/mary/turibius.htm

St Turibius, pray for vocations!

_________________
"You seek me", St. Augustine comments, "for the flesh, not for the spirit. How many seek Jesus for no other purpose than that He may do them good in this present life! [...] Scarcely ever is Jesus sought for Jesus' sake" (In Ioann. Evang, 25, 10).

“therefore is my people led away captive, because they have not knowledge … therefore hath hell enlarged her mouth without any bounds” (Is 5:13-14).

But he that shall persevere to the end, he shall be saved. (Mt 24:13)


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