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 Post subject: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:03 pm 
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Sons of Thunder
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which reads in part...

Quote:
even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)


This didn't seem correct so I looked up the Latin which reads,

Quote:
Nihilominus, iustificati ex fide in baptismate, Christo incorporantur,[17] ideoque christiano nomine iure decorantur et a filiis Ecclesiae catholicae ut fratres in Domino merito (censored).[18]


can you guys give a more rough literal translation of this? I was concerned with the word "members" being attributed to all those baptized, but it appears to say those are incorporated into Christ as opposed to members of Christ Body, no? This would make more sense (and a great relief, for those of you who know the Monsignor Fenton thesis).

Thanks in advance.


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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:38 pm 
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DominiCanis wrote:
which reads in part...

Quote:
even in spite of them it remains true that all who have been justified by faith in Baptism are members of Christ's body,(21) and have a right to be called Christian, and so are correctly accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church.(22)


This didn't seem correct so I looked up the Latin which reads,

Quote:
Nihilominus, iustificati ex fide in baptismate, Christo incorporantur,[17] ideoque christiano nomine iure decorantur et a filiis Ecclesiae catholicae ut fratres in Domino merito (censored).[18]


can you guys give a more rough literal translation of this? I was concerned with the word "members" being attributed to all those baptized, but it appears to say those are incorporated into Christ as opposed to members of Christ Body, no? This would make more sense (and a great relief, for those of you who know the Monsignor Fenton thesis).

Thanks in advance.

Nevertheless, those justified by faith through Baptism are incorporated in Christ and therefore justly honored with the name Christian and deservedly are recognized as brothers in the Lord by the sons of the Catholic Church.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Actually I am wondering what emphasis should be put in "Christo incorporantur" In-corpus after all. (in-body-fied)

The footnotes reference the following

Holy baptism holds the first place among all the sacraments, for it is the gate of the spiritual life; through it we become members of Christ and of the body of the church. Since death came into the world through one person, unless we are born again of water and the spirit, we cannot, as Truth says, enter the kingdom of heaven. (Council of Florence, 8th session)

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 7:09 pm 
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Nevertheless, those justified by faith through Baptism are incorporated in Christ and therefore justly honored with the name Christian and deservedly are recognized as brothers in the Lord by the sons of the Catholic Church. -smoky

Father Alonso relates the story of the interview one Father Lombardi had with Sister Lucia in 1954:
Quote:
"only a limited part of the human race will be saved"

Quote:
"many are condemned"

Quote:
"many, many are lost"

Note: Although not included here by Father Alonso, Sister Lucy defends herself by asking Fr. Lombardi, in the same interview-

"How can a Protestant be saved if he will not confess his sins to a priest?"

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Last edited by Rushintuit on Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:34 pm 
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St. Irenaeus' Against Heresies on the double-apostolic origin of the See of Rome:

(Excerpt)

Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its preeminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:50 pm 
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Rushintuit wrote:
"How can a Protestant be saved if he will not confess his sins to a priest?"
He does confess his sins to a priest, this one;

"Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession." Hebrews 3:1

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 9:06 pm 
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Both of you...what on earth does this have to do with Latin?

If you do not have a Latin question, or cannot answer a Latin question, butt out.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:58 am 
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AJ. wrote:
He does confess his sins to a priest, this one;

"Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, consider Jesus, the apostle and high priest of our confession." Hebrews 3:1

I suggest you start a thread on this elsewhere (it doesn't belong in here); nevertheless, good grief! "Confession" has meanings other than admitting one's guilt. "High priest of our confession" is another way of saying "high priest of our faith" -- the Apostle is telling those in the priesthood to take Our Lord as their teacher rather than Moses, whom Our Lord far surpasses in excellence.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:18 pm 
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Quote:
If you do not have a Latin question, or cannot answer a Latin question, butt out.

I do not have a Latin question, but let me say that I love the Traditional Latin Mass!!! :amen:

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:40 pm 
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I didn't intend to be that curt. I just don't want to see threads go down rabbit hole. Since this subforum is dedicated to Latin, discussion on other things should be elsewhere...lest it become impossible to have a straightforward answer to questions proposed

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:03 pm 
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Quote:
I just don't want to see threads go down rabbit hole.

For my part, I immediately correct my errors when they are brought to my attention.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:53 pm 
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It is not unusual that either an Orthodox Christian or a Protestant write something on Fatima themselves.

Can you provide correct Latin words for the following:

"O my Jesus! Forgive us. Save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need."

This ejaculation has correct English words and may be found in a booklet titled "First Saturday Aid", ISBN 1-56036-105-0, which can be ordered via www.wafusa.org

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 3:27 pm 
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lbt wrote:
"O my Jesus! Forgive us. Save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need."

This ejaculation has correct English words and may be found in a booklet titled "First Saturday Aid", ISBN 1-56036-105-0, which can be ordered via http://www.wafusa.org
This Fatima Prayer is part of the Rosary, which can be found in Latin here:

http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus ... arium.html


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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:04 pm 
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caleb wrote:
lbt wrote:
"O my Jesus! Forgive us. Save us from the fire of hell. Lead all souls to heaven, especially those who are in most need."

This ejaculation has correct English words and may be found in a booklet titled "First Saturday Aid", ISBN 1-56036-105-0, which can be ordered via http://www.wafusa.org
This Fatima Prayer is part of the Rosary, which can be found in Latin here:

http://www.preces-latinae.org/thesaurus ... arium.html


This Latin translation in the web site is based on incorrect English translation of actual Portuguese words, which Sister Lucy of Fatima wrote down. Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: English Translation of Decree on Ecumenism
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:16 pm 
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Why then would you want a Latin translation, other than curiosity?


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