always happy to live up to expectations...but you did provide me with the opportunity...and for that , i thank you

Totally agree.

I agree with that too.

Thanks for the helpful replies. Trusting in God seems to not be enough for this guy and others like him. He seems to have to have an infallible knowledge himself while denying infallibility. I think it is allowable to have a moral assurance that with would go to heaven as long as we understand that we could deceive ourselves. I love the St. Joan prayer:

If I am in a state of Grace, may God keep me there. If I am not, may God place me there. (St. Joan of Arc)

Don't all catholics tell us that they infallibly know that only the church has infallibility? The question is merely what are believing in--a church that is 2000 years removed from Christ, or the Word of God that is 99% pure to the 1st Century?

The apostle John said that we could know for certain. My heart breaks for anyone that suggests we can't.

Nope, we never claim infallibility for ourselves. Good try, but no cigar. You on the other hand, seem to claim infallibility in knowing the Word. Strange how that works.

but only because he knows the Word in context... which of course, no one else does should they disagree with him

Unless, of course, it's a debate over which church is the "right one". You guys are more than happy to tell me that the RCC is it.

Isn't that amazing? And almost every Protestant I've ever talked too, felt the same way. They KNOW the meaning of Scripture, because they have the holy spirit with them, and anyone who disagrees with them, evidently doesn't have the holy spirit. How do they know they have the holy spirit? Infallibility of course.

Still again, you mislead about what "you guys" tell you. No one on here has ever, nor ever will tell you that they KNOW from individual infallibility which Church is the Church that Christ left on earth. AND yet, you continue to claim otherwise. So tell me, which holy spirit leads you to claim an untruth?

P.S....alot of us are not 'guys'

Who here doesn't believe the catholic church isn't God's church? I realize there are a few non-catholics on this board, but of the others...who doesn't believe it is?

I believe the holy Roman Catholic Church and the Mystical Body of Christ are one and the same thing because a Pope infallibly told me so, not because I infallibly told me so.

Authority ..it all comes down to authority.

SV

it always does

And before one can submit to the proper authority, one must let go of pride.

I like this question better: If you were to get to heaven and see two doors, one "Those who know they are saved" and another "Those in need of God's mercy" which one would you chose?

I'm not qualified to judge myself, I leave that to God.

Wailing and gnashing of teeth on the other side of that door

Believing that and what you have said are two completely different things. We believe it because the Church that God sent us is obvious, a) from scripture, b) from the magisterium and c) tradition. Scripture is infallible. The Magisterium is infallible. Tradition isn't infallible as such, but the teachings from tradition, as long as they do not contradict Scripture are. So, what you are saying isn't what we believe. So, again, I ask you, which holy spirit leads you to claim an untruth?

FTFY

And, by the by, Sacred Tradition is infallible.

Philippians3:10 I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the sharing of his sufferings by becoming like him in his death. 11 if somehow I may attain the resurrection from the dead. 12 Not that I have already obtained this or have already reached the goal; but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own.

Revelation3:5 If you conquer, you will be clothed like them in white robes, and I will not blot your name out of the book of life; I will confess your name before my Father and before his angels.

Thanks, Pax