I think it's easier for some girls to be just friends with guys then it is for others. When your an attractive girl it's impossible to be just friends with a guy and sleep over his house because he'll end up liking you and it'll just be an akward situation.

Oh my bf called me so everythings good now. *relief*

Then again I think maybe it is possible that it won't be akward... but still if I had a husband I'd never let any woman around unless she was like his mother. I wouldn't feel comfortable sleeping in some other guys house either it would make me feel dirty to be really honest because I'd feel like I were disrepecting some other woman's home. Even if she said it was ok I'd still feel that way anyway.

I made no determination one way or the other. The fact, however, remains that this is not a young woman who has sufficient maturity or control to even recognize a proximate occasion of sin, let alone resist the temptation to be intimate with a young man - particularly one with whom she has a history of sexual behaviour and tumultuous emotional entanglements.



Then you can clearly see why my advice to techno_doll is that staying at his house is a mistake of epic proportions.

Oh ... and your story does absolutely nothing to change my opinion that a woman should not spend the night at the house of a single man to whom she is not married or related. That is my opinion and it isn't going to change no matter how many silly anecdotal statements you make because my opinion is based on the teachings of the Catholic Church and not the opinions of the secular world. Since this is, after all, a Catholic message board you shouldn't be surprised to see the Catholic viewpoint supported and the secular view dismissed as the utter folly that it is.

Until the next time he does something to upset or confuse you. At which point you'll come running back in a tizzy asking us what you did wrong, what he means or how you should handle something.

I'll save you some time, techno, the answer is now and will be then - Dump him. Get your own life. Stop worrying so much about any one boy. Get your life in order and get right with God. Then and only then can you even begin to truly think about a meaningful relationship with anyone.

In three months you've told us that you're a raver who uses X and sex. You've told us about breaking up with, getting back together with, breaking up with and giving another chance to this guy more times than we can keep track of. You've told us you're over him. You've told us you'll never be able to get over him. You've told us that you're not "doing anything" with him anymore. You've told us you slept at his house.

He bought you a rosary and asked you to hold money for him - and everything was okay. Then it wasn't okay and now because he called it's okay again.

Get a grip. Get a life. A life of your own. Learn who you are independent of this guy ...

And for heaven's sake - stop thinking that anyone here is going to tell you that this relationship is a good thing that you should continue. It's not going to happen. You're going to keep getting the same advice - Dump him.

Carole... I don't want to change your veiwpoint. I really don't. At this point right here all I'm asking for is to be heard.

Beezle -

I hear you. In fact - 20 years ago I was you. I just happen to believe that the secular world's got it all wrong.

50 years ago it would have been a grave scandal to the entire town if a single woman spent the night at the home of an unmarried man to whom she was not related.

The fact that we are no longer shocked by such behaviour isn't a good thing.

I just listened to my daughter - who is only 13 by the way - tell me about an acquaintance of hers (who is only 15) talking quite openly about how many boys she's had sex with and about a girl at school (a high school freshman) who casually discusses being an "everything but girl."

I don't think that these are leaps forward.

Young men and young women alone together are a recipe for trouble. The risk of succumbing to temptation might diminish a bit with age and maturity - that alone doesn't make the behaviour right or acceptable.

I strongly believe that we, meaning society as a whole, should have done more to hold on to a well developed sense of shame. There is no shame in the world any longer. It's a no-holds-barred, if it feels good do it, kind of world. And that, to me, is a very bad thing.

Thus, I will always choose to err on the side of caution and listen to the Catholic Church. 2,000 years of wisdom over the mess the secular world is in ... it wins every single time.

No you don't hear me... As soon as you read you are already off in another direction... that is not listening. But that is beside the point.
The Church is like the Army. If you play by the rules you don't need all the supplemental stuff.

What is the supplemental stuff?


SV

I'm with St. V here. What is the "supplemental stuff" that you're referring to?

Beezle, have you seen the movie When Harry Met Sally?

As I read your explanation of your friendship with Jon, all I could think of was a male friend of mine. We became friends when he was dating a girlfriend of mine. I'm not exactly sure how it all started, but somehow we became friendly. I think my girlfriend encouraged me to get friendly with him because she wanted to find out how he felt about her. Well, once he confided in me, I didn't feel right breaking that confidence especially since he didn't like her all that much. Anyway, we remained friends for... hmmmm...a good 15 years. When he got serious with a girl (and married her), I befriended her too. I wanted her to know that nothing was going on between us. I think she trusted me more than her own husband because quite frankly, I wasn't attracted to him. I loved him as a friend. He was a good guy. Then, he lost his job that he'd had for 10 years and he started to go down a bad road. We hung out together a lot and had a lot of fun. I knew his family and friends, etc. Then, one day our relationship changed forever. We were out and we'd both had a few drinks. He kissed me!!! I was shocked! He was my friend. What the heck happened! I viewed him like one of my female friends who no matter what had never kissed me (today this problem might exist but it didn't with me and any of my girlfriends). We didn't talk that night. I left and was in shock and was confused. He called me the next day and apologized for his behavior. Now a whole host of problems arose because he was married, etc. We did remain friends but I don't think we ever saw each other again. We talked on the phone but that was it. There is more complication to our relationship which I will spare you, but the point is, do not be surprised if your friend Jon finds you attractive. He might also "think" you're one of the boys and treat you as such, but I bet he thinks you are attractive. If you haven't seen When Harry Met Sally, then see it. It drives home that point.

Lisa

You probably were dying since you couldn't even get through the whole post.

I KNOW men are that shallow but you probably can't see it since your so busy wondering if people are calling you ugly and calling people ridiculous.

I just read all of the posts and my head is spinning but in a good way. I just want to point out that my life isn't revolved around my bf. I've only ever loved him and I really do hope that he'll marry me one day. I asked him about what he meant and he said he wants to get to know me better. He can tell I've changed a lot and says it's a good thing a really good thing.

I'm over X and honestly I've been feeling like a completely different person these days and don't even care for techno or blacklights its all corny now. I'm done with X and sex but I just want to point out that I probably sound like I've slept with lots of guys but honest to God it's lots less than you can count on one hand....not tipsy either :) jk but seriously. All things considered thats still bad but idk just wanted to make things clear. I guess I'm just saying I'm not as bad as I sound on here is all. I know you guys are probably like yea ok w/e but.... oh well...God knows and that's all that matters in the end.

I appreciate all the help honestly I do. It's hard to see things from the other side of a screen about someone elses personal life but you guys have been very helpful. I've been on and off with this same bf for 3 yrs and now that I've been trying to change I almost feel like God is brining us back together. Even if it doesn't work out I can't say I don't believe God is involved. This bf is the only one I ever truely loved out of all the guys I've ever known. I let him go a long time ago b/c I hoped he would find happiness even if it wasn't with me. When he came back I felt like God heard me and Holy Mother Mary had Mercy on me. I can't help but feel like this. I realize how young and naive this all sounds but...it's the truth.

A name change away from "techno.doll" is a great idea, then!

I did get your whole post and if you didn't want something to sound the way it did. You should have deleted it. I said I have been just friends with many males. You basically said I don't think is possible for attractive females to be just friends with males. Now what did it just sound like you said? I wasn't offended... People like me don't get offended over minor stuff like that. I actually thought it was funny which was why I said I was dying because I didn't think you meant to say it like that and really didn't care if you did.
I honestly don't think anyone cares how many males you have slept with... I know I don't. In a Catholic standpoint one outside of marriage was one to many. I think everyone here is relieved that you have decided to abstain.
I hope it all works out for you and this boyfriend but if/when it doesn't I really won't be suprised. In my opinion you got to involved with this boy to young and a lot of the "love" feelings are based on feelings of nostalia and hyped up romantic ideas of what could be.
Stop with the text talk. If I have to read PMs when I do it. Someone should be sending you a PM too.

If you don't care about half of the things I said in my post then why bother to reply?

I 'text talk' because it's usually late at night when I'm on here and my typing wakes people up so I shorten the words. I don't tell you to stop writing fragments or to stop using obnoxious colors.

I'll just stop with all the boy-talk. I only wrote the above post so people can get a better understanding of me is all because I felt like I was being misinterpreted. I realize this is a messageboard for Catholicism so I'll leave this alone. I know I've said this before so sorry for the relapse.

Ok techno. You're right. He's a total winner, you're totally and utterly in love. All is right with the world. And everything is coming up roses. We're wrong. We have no idea what we're talking about. We completely misunderstood your past three months of posting. And we're all completely clueless.

What you've posted since July 30 all points to a young woman with some very serious issues who needs desperately to deal with those issues (probably with a professional) and to grow up.

My prediction is that within a matter of weeks he's going to do or say something to confuse, confound or disillusion you and you'll be back with another "I don't know what to do" story and expect us all to rush to give you advice. Advice which we will give and which you will promptly ignore telling us that we don't understand.

The very same secular world in which, according to one story I read last week, the #1 best selling t-shirt for teen girls at Old Navy says 'Everyone loves a slutty girl.'

You know what? That t-shirt is right. Every man loves a slutty girl, a trashy girl, an easy girl, men love them. But you know what is missing? Respect. Men love a slutty girl..... but they have zero respect for them. In fact, men have contempt for a slutty girl, even while they enjoy the 'fun' of the easy girl, in their heart of hearts, men absolutely DESPISE that girl for being so easy. In fact, that is precisely the reason why the word 'slut' exists in the first place. It is not exactly a term of respect or affection.

In the mind of every man, there are two kinds of women: those you enjoy a good one night stand with, and those for whom you have actual respect and admiration and whom he might consider to be worthy of a serious adult relationship. And these two categories are mutally exclusive, it is impossible to transition from the one category to the other.

And this culture of 'hooking up' that the secular world celebrates, where somehow casual sex becomes a serious and mature relationship based on mutual affection and respect is pure FANTASY.

Following this secular ethic of 'hooking up' is basically a guaranteed route to repeated romantic failures, heartbreak and disappointment. A lot of young people today are incredibly bitter about relationships, incredibly bitter. You talk to some 20 years old today, and they sound like a 40 something after a brutal divorce. That is what the secular viewpoint on sexuality leads to.... 20 year olds who have already experienced so much disappointment, rejection and pain in relationships that have become jaded, bitter, angry and disenchanted and have concluded that 'love' and 'relationships' are a complete farce.

Bitterness...it is not just the middle aged anymore.

I agree with you Doom...but I'm not a slut and I've never just 'hooked up' with anyone like it didn't mean anything to me. I'm not the stereotypical person I've been made out to be here.

Honestly I feel like I've been ridiculed enough. I'm even being ridiculed for trying to explain myself. I'm not trying to be right or pretending like my bf is the greatest guy. I never said you were all cluesless either I was thanking you all for your help...so if it didn't come across I'll say it again- Thanks to everyone for helping me the best you could. I know your intentions are good so I apologize for coming across as someone who doesn't value your insights.

techno,

With all due respect, child, you're the one who has said the things that have "made out out to be" what we've gathered from your posts. If you don't want to be portrayed in a given way then you need to censor what you write about yourself.

If you really wonder how we've come to the conclusions we've come to about you, your boyfriend and your relationship with this guy I strongly urge you to go back and really read what you've written. But then, we've had this conversation with you before. You claim to not understand how you have been so misunderstood and we urge you to re-read your own posts. It's a repeating trend.

You're not being ridiculed. Perhaps you need to check your dictionary and learn the definition of ridicule. You're being given the sound, mature, responsible and most importantly Catholic advice that you've asked for. Like a typical teenager though, you're upset because you're not hearing what you had hoped to hear.

That's okay, dear. Most of us are old enough to recognize and remember that behaviour. We know it's coming the moment we give the advice. Fortunately for you, and other young adults like you, it won't stop any of us from telling you what you need to hear in the hopes that you will eventually listen.

If you truly cannot understand why Doom brought up promiscuous behaviour perhaps you should read my post about the conversations my 13-year-old daughter has had with some of her thoroughly secular friends that I mentioned in this thread. Or perhaps you should read your own words, "I probably sound like I've slept with lots of guys but honest to God it's lots less than you can count on one hand...."

Techno, you're not even 19 and you've had sex with more than one man. I'm sorry but an unmarried woman of your age who has already had sex with more than one, but apparently less than 5, men is in need of a good talking to about virtue.

Don't blame us when we read what you've written and see a pattern to it. If you want to be upset at how you are perceived here you need to look at what you've written.