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 Post subject: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:27 am 
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Sons of Thunder
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Toady's reading from the Psalms is from a passage that I remember a Catholic friend of mine using in refutation of my criticism of liturgical dance and what I perceive to be liturgical abuse in music. Does Psalm 149 have merit regarding this issue?

"Hallelujah! Sing to the LORD a new song, a hymn in the assembly of the faithful. Let Israel be glad in their maker, the people of Zion rejoice in their king. Let them praise his name in festive dance, make music with tambourine and lyre."

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:08 pm 
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I'm not well-versed in OT times or anything, but ISTM the celebration in the psalm is not in any way liturgical or connected with their actual worship. It's praise. Catholics can play tambourines and dance and praise God, just not as a part of Mass. (Though even outside of Mass they should take care that this form of praising God is not about entertainment and isn't too emotionally-driven and isn't undignified or immodest and so forth.)

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:27 pm 
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Dominicatella wrote:
I'm not well-versed in OT times or anything, but ISTM the celebration in the psalm is not in any way liturgical or connected with their actual worship. It's praise. Catholics can play tambourines and dance and praise God, just not as a part of Mass. (Though even outside of Mass they should take care that this form of praising God is not about entertainment and isn't too emotionally-driven and isn't undignified or immodest and so forth.)

OK, that was basically where I went with my response. I asked, "Dance and joy yes, but did they do that in the temple?" Which neither of us knew the answer to.

I think "God centered" and "modesty" are key words.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:24 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
I asked, "Dance and joy yes, but did they do that in the temple?"


What they did in the temple included slaughtering goats and burning their entrails,and wringing the heads off of pigeons. Clearly, unless one is trying to argue it would not be a liturgical abuse to slaughter a goat during Mass, one cannot use even the most authentic liturgical practices of Temple Judaism as necessary patterns for what would or would not be a liturgical abuse for Christians today.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 04, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Custos wrote:
Desertfalcon wrote:
I asked, "Dance and joy yes, but did they do that in the temple?"


What they did in the temple included slaughtering goats and burning their entrails,and wringing the heads off of pigeons. Clearly, unless one is trying to argue it would not be a liturgical abuse to slaughter a goat during Mass, one cannot use even the most authentic liturgical practices of Temple Judaism as necessary patterns for what would or would not be a liturgical abuse for Christians today.

Oh, I am thinking that most of the practices of the Mass have an Old Covenant connection. From the sanctuary lamp and tabernacle to the altar and candles for the paschal meal. I would also think that you are comparing "apples and oranges" though. The Mass and it's representation of the one Sacrifice for all time replaced the sacrifice of animals but that sacrifice of animal blood was what God desired, so graphic as your depiction may be, it was pleasing to the Lord. I still would like to know what the Psalm was referring to specifically. Was it liturgical?

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:50 pm 
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In middle eastern cultures, dance was - and is - important to celebrations.

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 Post subject: Re: What do you guys think of this?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:10 am 
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I think King David wrote this psalm. The main point of the psalm is to praise the Lord. If you'd like to sing the psalm in Hebrew, try this:

http://www.hebrewsongs.com/psalm149.htm

It's rare that we Catholics (except in Africa) dance during the Mass. But we can sing the psalm.

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