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 Post subject: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 7:25 pm 
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I thought this was an awesome video from youtube on Padre Pio, so decided to post it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

It's says Padre Pio would sometimes hold up the Host for 10 minutes during the consecration. That is amazing! How could one not be moved by his holiness, and his personal cooperation in the mysteries of the Mass?

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:06 pm 
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PDUBYA wrote:
I thought this was an awesome video from youtube on Padre Pio, so decided to post it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

It's says Padre Pio would sometimes hold up the Host for 10 minutes during the consecration. That is amazing! How could one not be moved by his holiness, and his personal cooperation in the mysteries of the Mass?

Just a note...while Padre Pio was very holy, holding the host up for a long time is not advisable...indeed, it wasn't really according to the rubric as it were (which presumed a fluid motion, and no long delay holding it up).

Padre Pio had to have someone, at times, poke him because he got lost in contemplation during Mass. Holy? Yes. Advisable to emulate on this point? Probably not.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
PDUBYA wrote:
I thought this was an awesome video from youtube on Padre Pio, so decided to post it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

It's says Padre Pio would sometimes hold up the Host for 10 minutes during the consecration. That is amazing! How could one not be moved by his holiness, and his personal cooperation in the mysteries of the Mass?

Just a note...while Padre Pio was very holy, holding the host up for a long time is not advisable...indeed, it wasn't really according to the rubric as it were (which presumed a fluid motion, and no long delay holding it up).

Padre Pio had to have someone, at times, poke him because he got lost in contemplation during Mass. Holy? Yes. Advisable to emulate on this point? Probably not.


Maybe he saw and felt something you cannot perceive...

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:18 am 
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Holding the Host for ten minutes? But rubrics in the Mass are very simple:

He [the priest] shows the consecrated host to the people, places it again on the paten, and genuflects in adoration.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:38 am 
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lbt wrote:
Holding the Host for ten minutes? But rubrics in the Mass are very simple:

He [the priest] shows the consecrated host to the people, places it again on the paten, and genuflects in adoration.


But it doesn't say for how long the priest is to show it.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:42 am 
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Francisca wrote:
lbt wrote:
Holding the Host for ten minutes? But rubrics in the Mass are very simple:

He [the priest] shows the consecrated host to the people, places it again on the paten, and genuflects in adoration.


But it doesn't say for how long the priest is to show it.

As Padre Pio died before the NO was established, this is irrelevant

The rubrics of the old Mass indicate one fluid motion of elevating the host, and then placing it back down. No pause at the top then.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 11:43 am 
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Jakub wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
PDUBYA wrote:
I thought this was an awesome video from youtube on Padre Pio, so decided to post it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

It's says Padre Pio would sometimes hold up the Host for 10 minutes during the consecration. That is amazing! How could one not be moved by his holiness, and his personal cooperation in the mysteries of the Mass?

Just a note...while Padre Pio was very holy, holding the host up for a long time is not advisable...indeed, it wasn't really according to the rubric as it were (which presumed a fluid motion, and no long delay holding it up).

Padre Pio had to have someone, at times, poke him because he got lost in contemplation during Mass. Holy? Yes. Advisable to emulate on this point? Probably not.


Maybe he saw and felt something you cannot perceive...

Maybe. So what? It would still be stupid to make a daily Mass last several hours

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:52 pm 
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I am not saying that holiness depends on how long you hold the Host up. That is not my point and I think we're all smart enough to know that here.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Jakub wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
PDUBYA wrote:
I thought this was an awesome video from youtube on Padre Pio, so decided to post it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjxL3sgfMqQ

It's says Padre Pio would sometimes hold up the Host for 10 minutes during the consecration. That is amazing! How could one not be moved by his holiness, and his personal cooperation in the mysteries of the Mass?

Just a note...while Padre Pio was very holy, holding the host up for a long time is not advisable...indeed, it wasn't really according to the rubric as it were (which presumed a fluid motion, and no long delay holding it up).

Padre Pio had to have someone, at times, poke him because he got lost in contemplation during Mass. Holy? Yes. Advisable to emulate on this point? Probably not.


Maybe he saw and felt something you cannot perceive...

Maybe. So what? It would still be stupid to make a daily Mass last several hours


Stating that someone's liturgical practice/preference is stupid... is uncharitable

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 1:51 pm 
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I would be stupid for an ordinary person to emulate a genuine mystic rather than following the rubrics.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Bagheera wrote:
I would be stupid for an ordinary person to emulate a genuine mystic rather than following the rubrics.

Right. As I said, Padre Pio certainly was holy. Doesn't mean that in every respect we do exactly as he does.

Liturgical preference...my, what an anachronistic term to apply to Padre Pio. One which would probably not make him happy. I really hate that term. As if the liturgy were something for us to fashion as we desire or prefer.

There were saints so careful over the rubrics that they tied themselves down so that they would stay at the altar doing Mass rather than levitate :fyi:

Still, when I said it would be stupid to make daily Mass last several hours...let us see. How many people get to daily Mass? How many could, not would, but could if it were several hours long...much of that because the priest just stood there doing nothing. Padre Pio would be rapt in contemplation, a rather extraordinary thing. He was not doing nothing. As a matter of obedience to holy mother Church the priest, who has presence of mind, would be wrong to institute a different liturgical practice than that which she prescribes. It would be an abuse, for instance, for a simple priest (at least with the EF) to hold the host up for ten minutes, to give benediction with it at that time (which actually has happened in the past), etc. But obviously if someone gets raptured in contemplation, we are not talking about the same thing. We aren't even speaking about the liturgy at that point. Such a rapture is extra-liturgical and perhaps seen best as a pause to the liturgy

Besides, one should not needlessly delay the second consecration, as the two form as one the sacrifice of the Mass and a long delay can weaken their connection.

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 2:44 pm 
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Jakub wrote:
Stating that someone's liturgical practice/preference is stupid... is uncharitable

Is it stupid to commit venial sin?

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 5:57 pm 
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Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Jakub wrote:
Stating that someone's liturgical practice/preference is stupid... is uncharitable

Is it stupid to commit venial sin?


Have you attended a Mass celebrated by then Padre Pio ? Besides back then in Italy the people were quite a bit more pious about matters of faith and were not tied to a specific time allotment, I know because my grandparents immigrated from there...

You throw the word stupid around too much...be careful it might bite you

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:53 pm 
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Jakub wrote:
Pro Ecclesia Dei wrote:
Jakub wrote:
Stating that someone's liturgical practice/preference is stupid... is uncharitable

Is it stupid to commit venial sin?


Have you attended a Mass celebrated by then Padre Pio ? Besides back then in Italy the people were quite a bit more pious about matters of faith and were not tied to a specific time allotment, I know because my grandparents immigrated from there...

You throw the word stupid around too much...be careful it might bite you

Look the rubrics of the EF direct the elevation as one fluid motion. Padre Pio got rapt up in contemplation. All I said was one should be careful before emulating holding to host up for a long time, or inserting pauses into the Mass. If a priest gets rapt of in ecstasy, well that is rather extraordinary and unusual and should be considered sui generis. In the EF the rubrics don't allow for holding the host up for a prolonged period of time. Hence it would be against the rubric to do so. Wilful disregard of any rubric is a venial sin. Ergo...

You know what? Nevermind. Why I bother when I made a simple observation...you do what you want. Who gives a damn about truth right?

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:06 pm 
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Here's another exception to the rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMu60dibGSw

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Quote:
Wilful disregard of any rubric is a venial sin
.

If the same rule applies to the Ordinary Form the local parish priests out here need to have their confessions heard more often...

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2012 9:13 am 
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PDUBYA wrote:
Here's another exception to the rule.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMu60dibGSw

The Franciscans of the Immaculate are a wonderful group, but unless they have peculiar permissions, that example is also not to be emulated. I am not referring to the Minister General celebrating the Mass and moving slowly. He is elderly. I didn't see that as adding an action to the liturgy...he is simply slow

No. The silent canon. All in favor. But since (unlike Padre Pio) this was an OF Mass, it was against the rubrics and not to be done, again, saving special permission.

I also think it is wrong and unethical to photograph or film the elevation, but that is my own opinion (one which seems tacitly dropped by Rome, which had forbidden such, but as even papal Masses are filmed that way now....)

You might as well post an Eastern Liturgy now. All have different rules, so oranges and coconuts...

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 Post subject: Re: Padre Pio and the Mass
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 12:07 pm 
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I actually have met Padre Pio.

Did you know that Padre Pio had no wounds on his hands in his Last Mass when he held up the Chalice? I have the picture right in Bernard Ruffin's Padre Pio: The True Story. He had to sit behind the altar and face the people at that time.

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