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 Post subject: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:58 am 
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Journeyman
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Please recommend me a Sunday Missal for TLM.

I would buy a daily missal but I think I need something small and easy to carry.

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 2:47 pm 
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Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)

How do they cover all of the bible then? I thought the three cycles was so the entire bible was publicly read at Mass and that it was a requirement. Is that not so?

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:12 pm 
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Desertfalcon wrote:
Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)

How do they cover all of the bible then? I thought the three cycles was so the entire bible was publicly read at Mass and that it was a requirement. Is that not so?

1. The entire bible is not read in Mass in any rite of the Church

2. There are passages read in the yearly cycle of the TLM that are not in the NO. Nevertheless, there is more scripture covered in the NO

The thing is, traditionaly more scripture is covered by the Divine Office, where the idea of variability and propers first came.

There are arguments which way is better. Personally I like the fact that my Sunday readings in the TLM were the same ones St. Augustine preached on on that same Sunday. Having the same year in and out also, in my mind, engrains it better in the memory...hence the ability to speak of Emmaus Monday, or Good Shepherd Sundays, etc. Naming days by the reading was quitecommon in the past

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:24 pm 
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Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
1. The entire bible is not read in Mass in any rite of the Church

2. There are passages read in the yearly cycle of the TLM that are not in the NO. Nevertheless, there is more scripture covered in the NO

The thing is, traditionaly more scripture is covered by the Divine Office, where the idea of variability and propers first came.

There are arguments which way is better. Personally I like the fact that my Sunday readings in the TLM were the same ones St. Augustine preached on on that same Sunday. Having the same year in and out also, in my mind, engrains it better in the memory...hence the ability to speak of Emmaus Monday, or Good Shepherd Sundays, etc. Naming days by the reading was quitecommon in the past

Thanks. I had always thought the reason for the three cycles was as I stated. Never thought to actually check.

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 4:11 am 
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For instance, the book of Judith is never read at Mass (except for a couple of optional readings in the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary) ... :fyi:

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 8:01 am 
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Louis-Marie Flambeau wrote:
For instance, the book of Judith is never read at Mass (except for a couple of optional readings in the Common of the Blessed Virgin Mary) ... :fyi:

Right, in the New Mass that is. In the old Mass it is read.

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2012 10:52 pm 
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Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)


Is that a 1944 missal?

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:17 am 
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Francisca wrote:
And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?


Pre-Vatican II lectionary had only one cycle:

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionar ... Missal.htm

The Second Vatican Council added more Biblical readings to the lectionary so we now have cycles A, B, C for Sundays and cycles I, II for weekdays:

http://catholic-resources.org/Lectionary/

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:02 am 
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Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)


Does it matter if I get a new one or an old edition?

On Amazon.com someone made a comment "I purchased this missal in the hopes that it would help me follow along with the mass said in Latin but found out the hard way that this book only covers the Low Mass."

Isn't the only difference between high mass and low - the beginning part, I think it's called "Vidi Aquam"
Oh, and also the times when you stand and sit are a little different..

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:28 am 
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Francisca wrote:
Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)


Does it matter if I get a new one or an old edition?

On Amazon.com someone made a comment "I purchased this missal in the hopes that it would help me follow along with the mass said in Latin but found out the hard way that this book only covers the Low Mass."

Isn't the only difference between high mass and low - the beginning part, I think it's called "Vidi Aquam"
Oh, and also the times when you stand and sit are a little different..

I've never seen a handmissal that covered only Low Mass. By the way, the Vidi Aquam is sung only during the Easter season (the Aperges is sung on Sundays before High Mass the remainder of the year).

Old or new should not matter, really, for the average person in the pew, except during Holy Week.

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Francisca wrote:
Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
Francisca wrote:

And I have a question, do the readings have a cycle of years A, B, C ? I seems like it doesn't?

No. Same readings year in and year out

I like Fr. Stedman's Sunday Missal myself...nice and small (older editions are smaller than reprints)


Does it matter if I get a new one or an old edition?

On Amazon.com someone made a comment "I purchased this missal in the hopes that it would help me follow along with the mass said in Latin but found out the hard way that this book only covers the Low Mass."

Isn't the only difference between high mass and low - the beginning part, I think it's called "Vidi Aquam"
Oh, and also the times when you stand and sit are a little different..

No.

1. The Asperges/ Vidi Aquam is not done before High Mass in general. It is done before the principal Mass on SUNDAY only. In some countries even if this is a low Mass. So if a place has multiple Masses on Sunday, only one gets it, and it is never done on a weekday, no matter the feast

2. As the texts are the exact same in high Mass/low Mass the comment makes little sense*

3. Unless it simply lacked suggested postures for high Mass (kneeling, standing, etc) but as there is NO rubrics whatsoever for the laity there, and customs vary from parish to parish, let alone state to state, that is a very minor point. I suppose the fact that the choir sings certain things while the priest is reciting other things might be a little confusing

*Not exactly actually. The scripture that the priest reads from the Missal at the altar (quietly in a sung Mass, aloud in a low) is na different translation than what the choir uses in the Graduale, being from the vulgate for the Missal, but the older Italic for the Graduale. But the differences are minor, and very rarely would even affect the English translation (This applies to the introit, graduale, offertory, communion). In any case every handmissal has the one from the Missal, and not the graduale.

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:35 pm 
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Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
1. The Asperges/ Vidi Aquam is not done before High Mass in general. It is done before the principal Mass on SUNDAY only. In some countries even if this is a low Mass. So if a place has multiple Masses on Sunday, only one gets it, and it is never done on a weekday, no matter the feast

Thanks, I did not know it is Sunday only. But I think it's rare here. I go to a TLM 2-3 times a month and I've only seen the Asperges/Vidi Aquam twice, last year, I think only a certain priest does it.

Solivagus in Mundi wrote:
3. Unless it simply lacked suggested postures for high Mass (kneeling, standing, etc) but as there is NO rubrics whatsoever for the laity there, and customs vary from parish to parish, let alone state to state, that is a very minor point. I suppose the fact that the choir sings certain things while the priest is reciting other things might be a little confusing

There's no rubrics for our postures? Then that means that the postures in the red paper missal(ette) are just suggestions? It says like on the sides "KNEEL (Low Mass)"

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 28, 2012 2:51 pm 
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Francisca wrote:
There's no rubrics for our postures? Then that means that the postures in the red paper missal(ette) are just suggestions? It says like on the sides "KNEEL (Low Mass)"

The red paper missalettes have many things that are just the random quirkiness of the guy who made it (including things actually against the rubrics for servers, e.g. with bell ringing). I hate them just because even the back cover is wrong and full of harmful error (low Mass is not silent Mass for instance)

prior to 1962 there was a single rubric. It was directive, not prescriptive (basically meaning that it was the default in lieu of custom, but different customs deviating from it was fine). The single rubric state that one kneels at low Mass, except at the two Gospels where they stand. That is it. Kneel. Stand for gospels. The rubric is not in the 1962 edition anyhow

The custom of people more or less follows the rubrics for those attending in choir for high Mass. The main differences are simplifications. For instance, the rubric for choir is to kneel until the Consecration is over then stand through the rest of the Canon, unless the Mass is in violet or black then you kneel until the end of the Canon. We just kneel through the end. The rubric is to stand when the priest ascends the altar (if you are singing the introit you are standing anyways), but people stay kneeling until the Gloria. If Mass is in violet or black the rubric is to kneel at the Collect and Postcommunion, but this is not normally observed by laity (it is, or was at least, at TAC through my influence...as a server I knelt at Lent and Advent at these points and the congregation and other servers looked to me as a guide)

Hence you can take the rubrics for those attending in choro, and you will see the majority of the actions laity do with only minor differences that are often just simplifying

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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:17 pm 
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People also stand for the Credo at Low Mass, when it is said.


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 Post subject: Re: Missal (TLM)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:01 pm 
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Ceremoniar wrote:
People also stand for the Credo at Low Mass, when it is said.

In some place, not every place. Likewise some sit during the Epistle, some kneel. Some kneel during the offertory, others sit.

No uniform practice, no rubric (other than the pre-1962 to kneel for everything except the Gospels)

The server(s), in anycase, in a low Mass kneel even during the creed.

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