Login Register

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic Page 4 of 4   [ 64 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Utility contrary to the designed purpose of created things
PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:10 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:10 pm
Posts: 12739
Location: Inverted Cross domain
Will Storm wrote:
Get we go further back. Beyond the establishment of the institution...
why is homosexuality wrong outside of the institution.
The repeated reason that I am still having trouble with is that it somehow diminishes our ability to reason. I know that I am being... slow on this issue but I want to understand the whole thing so that I can defend the Church's decision.


Homosexual marriage is wrong on two levels. First it's not a marriage. Second it's not a sexual act. The reason why it's not a marriage is already discussed above. The reason why it's not a sexual act is because it's contrary to the purpose (recall Aristotle's fourth cause, the final cause) of a sexual act. The main purpose of sexual act of the genitals is to produce offspring. Homosexuality use the sexual organs contrary to its purpose. An infertile heterosexual couple does not use their sexual organs contrary to its purpose because they remain open to the possibility of procreation.

So sexual organ are meant for [ie. it's final cause/purpose is] heterosexual sex, just like how the heart is meant for pumping blood, just like how the kidney is for cleansing blood. We know this. But if after knowing it we use our sexual organ for homosexual act, our heart for cleansing blood and our kidney for pumping blood then we are acting contrary to what we know is the organs purpose [.ie. final cause]. It's like knowing that 1+2=3 but deliberately say that it's 4. Such acts destroy reason. We are being unreasonable.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Utility contrary to the designed purpose of created things
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:09 am 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:26 am
Posts: 1163
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Man for Others
Wonderful explanation.

But I have two problems.

One, it seems there is a hierarchy of applicable actions that a hammer can be used for besides inserting and extracting nails. The applicable actions that destroy reason the least are things that are closer to its designed purpose and the applicable action that destroy reason the most are thing that are further from it designed purpose.

Using a hammer to crack open a piggy bank... probably pretty close to what the hammer was designed for but not precisely what it was designed for.
Using a hammer to knit a scarf for the winter... pretty far from what the hammer was designed for.

Second, with all that in mind it makes me think that using things contrary to their purpose is not such a bad thing. But, perhaps using a hammer to knit is an acknowledged deterioration of reason which could argued to be a sin, and when the deterioration of reason is born of misusing one of God's creations (human) the sin is magnified.

Does that make any kind of sense?

_________________
From the beginning, Christianity has understood itself as the religion of the Logos, as the religion according to reason...It has always defined men, all men without distinction, as creatures and images of God, proclaiming for them...the same dignity: to live a faith that comes from the Logos, from creative reason, and that, because of this, is also open to all that is truly rational.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Utility contrary to the designed purpose of created things
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:49 pm 
Offline
Sons of Thunder
Sons of Thunder
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2003 4:10 pm
Posts: 12739
Location: Inverted Cross domain
That's even better. I never thought about a hierarchy. Or maybe, as I had in mind, two opposite poles. On the most remote part of the pole right side you have "using hammer to hit the nail to the wall" (the very purpose of a hammer) and on the most remote part of the pole left side you have "using hammer to pull the nail off the wall" (very contrary to the purpose of hammer).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Utility contrary to the designed purpose of created things
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:44 pm 
Offline
Journeyman
Journeyman
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:26 am
Posts: 1163
Religion: Catholic
Church Affiliations: Man for Others
Well, it seems a hammer has two different parts that interact with nails. The hitting (pushing) and the extracting (pulling). In any case, wouldn't one be devoid of reason already when you go to try and knit with a hammer. It wouldn't necessarily decrease reason itself, but rather be a symptom of decreased reason...

_________________
From the beginning, Christianity has understood itself as the religion of the Logos, as the religion according to reason...It has always defined men, all men without distinction, as creatures and images of God, proclaiming for them...the same dignity: to live a faith that comes from the Logos, from creative reason, and that, because of this, is also open to all that is truly rational.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic Page 4 of 4   [ 64 posts ]   Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


Jump to: