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 Post subject: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 2:59 pm 
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What is the meaning and significance of the seal remaining when one isn't in communion with God? Does it stay even when one goes to hell?

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Yes, it stays. In fact, it's worse to be in Hell if you're baptized than if you aren't.

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:52 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
Yes, it stays. In fact, it's worse to be in Hell if you're baptized than if you aren't.


Why does it stay? What is the point once there?

Why is it worse?

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:59 pm 
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The seal of Baptism orients a person towards the worship of God. It both enables the recipient to worship God properly and obliges him to do so. A person in Hell does not and cannot worship God, so he is unable to do what his very being is oriented towards doing.

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:05 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The seal of Baptism orients a person towards the worship of God. It both enables the recipient to worship God properly and obliges him to do so. A person in Hell does not and cannot worship God, so he is unable to do what his very being is oriented towards doing.


Very interesting response, Father. Are you saying that in baptism, the nature of the individual is changed from a state of alienation from God to one of orientation towards God? St. Peter states that we are made partakers of the divine nature, which I believe would mean that our ontology is somehow changed by this Sacrament.

What say you? (This is interesting to me because this understanding of mankind is part of our anthropology class.)

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:07 pm 
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I think that's a fair restatement of my point, yes.

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:09 pm 
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This, BTW, is the reason that the Church requires a well-founded hope that a minor child will be brought up Catholic before admitting him to baptism. We are doing him no favors by orienting him towards a life he will get no help in living.

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:25 pm 
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Obi-Wan Kenobi wrote:
The seal of Baptism orients a person towards the worship of God. It both enables the recipient to worship God properly and obliges him to do so. A person in Hell does not and cannot worship God, so he is unable to do what his very being is oriented towards doing.


Versus an unbaptized person in hell who would NOT be oriented in such a way?

I'm trying to capture this orientation in practical terms. Like being thirsty for the first time? And once you've been thirsty, it never goes away? Whereas, those that never got baptized, were never thirsty to begin with. Something like that?

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 Post subject: Re: Meaning of Baptismal Seal beyond...
PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 8:26 pm 
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That's not a bad approximation.

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