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 Post subject: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:13 am 
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Master
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OK -

Some close friends of ours that we don't get to see too often are coming to visit on Good Friday. Now, we will of course be fasting and not eating any meat. However, my wife asked, "what about drinks"?

I don't know the answer. They will want to have a couple of beers/wine with us, but we aren't turning things into some party.

So, what's the Church's rule alcohol on Good Friday?

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:18 am 
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I don't think there's actually a rule. Prudence generally suggests abstaining, it seems to me, but having a drink for the sake of courtesy seems as if it would be permissible. I don't know, though, so I look forward to reading others' responses. :)

I'm assuming it's not possible to meet with your friends on another day that's more appropriate for levity? Are your friends Catholic?

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:42 am 
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i'm thinking sitting around after the evening meal with drinks would not be permissible...but i also am anxious to see a more definitive answer

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:52 am 
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Puppi wrote:
I don't think there's actually a rule. Prudence generally suggests abstaining, it seems to me, but having a drink for the sake of courtesy seems as if it would be permissible. I don't know, though, so I look forward to reading others' responses. :)

I'm assuming it's not possible to meet with your friends on another day that's more appropriate for levity? Are your friends Catholic?


No, they aren't Catholic. They live 5.5 hours away and the dates worked out based on school, work, and the fact they are moving further away.

Interesting story -

A few years ago we visited them. On Sunday, we got up early and took the family to Mass in their town. They hadn't found a church, but had been in their new home for several months. They felt so guilty that vistors (us) took their family to Church that they started going to church something like the very next weekend.

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:08 pm 
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AFAIK, liquids that cannot be called "food" properly do not break the law of fasting. But, as Puppi notes the spirit of the law would say that prudence should be practiced.

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:12 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
So, what's the Church's rule alcohol on Good Friday?


No rule. You can have white wine with fish dinner. But drink alcohol moderately. We shouldn't get drunk on Good Friday :)

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:36 pm 
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Peetem wrote:
... A few years ago we visited them. On Sunday, we got up early and took the family to Mass in their town. They hadn't found a church, but had been in their new home for several months. They felt so guilty that vistors (us) took their family to Church that they started going to church something like the very next weekend.


You seemed to have quite an impact on your friends. Perhaps you should pose your dilemma to them. Explain what the Lenten season Friday fasting and abstinence requirements are, make a recommendation, and see what happens from there.

Who knows? You might have a wonderful evening eating fish, drinking water, catching up on old times, and becoming spiritually closer to each other.

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:24 pm 
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If it was at their place and they offered you wine, and you accepted out of charity, that would be one thing. But if it's at your place you can set the tone.


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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:52 pm 
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I sense a bit of irony here, though. Despite your attempts NOT to be technical with the law you just may be doing that by not having drinks.

One of the ends of drinks and food is that they express celebration and togetherness. Your problem is like trying to orchestrate a luncheon on Good Friday but you plan only to serve crackers due to the fast. This is just as technical as trying to justify having more because of the luncheon. The REAL issue is whether you should HAVE the luncheon. That solves having to dispute the law.

In your case, the question is whether or not you should host friends on Good Friday. I don't see why not as long as you aren't planning something that breaks the fast. But, you should still also not forget good manners and hospitality. Wine and spirits are usual fare for weary travellers. And if they are not Catholic they are not bound by the law anyway. And you are not bound to not have drink with them. Certainly, a line of prudence can be drawn between being excessively celebratory on Good Friday and sharing a customary drink with old friends, all without breaking either the letter or spirit of the law. If there is struggle with this then the real issue, istm, is with having the event in the first place then.

Don't get me wrong... I am NOT saying that you MUST have alcohol. I also like the other suggestion that you can invite them over to socialize in a manner of fasting and strict observation of Good Friday. But, if this is not the spirit of the event, then observing the fast in the strictest of ways seems out of place. It seems to me that if you are willing to host a get together of old non-catholic friends on Good Friday, then you should also be willing to observe the law in a less strict (but still very legal) way.

Just my very cheap two-cents...

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:06 pm 
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I think the likely reaction to you NOT doing what is customary (and legal according to the fasting laws) will be :roll: "These crazy Catholics! Why did they have us over then?" Since that is the likely reaction, a strict observance on your part may do more damage. Some laws have flexibility for a reason... sometimes a strict observance can be out of place and can do more spiritual harm than good.

Again, I don't know your friends and how they will take this. For all I know, they may be completely intrigued at your Good Friday observance and declare it an new annual event where you get together for fish and water. But, if this is NOT a likely reaction in your opinion, then you might want to consider the alternative.

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Oh... and I would run it by your pastor. He should have the last word.

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:14 pm 
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I've been thinking that prudence is best. A glass of wine or two, our one meal of the day, and lots of laughter. I'll talk with our priest tomorrow, but part of me doesn't want to be overly legalistic.

They are staying for the entire weekend, so we'll get to go crazy on Saturday. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:45 am 
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Peetem wrote:

They are staying for the entire weekend, so we'll get to go crazy on Saturday. :D



(after the Vigil, right?)

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:21 am 
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Is it 'right' or proper for us to be joyful on Good Friday? I've always thought it was a day to be sorrowful.


SV

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:34 am 
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St Veronica wrote:
Is it 'right' or proper for us to be joyful on Good Friday? I've always thought it was a day to be sorrowful.


SV


We're not really going to go crazy.

Regardless, I'm not sure how we could turn down their visit. They are very old friends who are moving. We might not be able to see them for a couple of years.

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:05 am 
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St Veronica wrote:
Is it 'right' or proper for us to be joyful on Good Friday? I've always thought it was a day to be sorrowful.


SV


It's funny you ask this because I have often struggled with this. I have never received a good answer as to how to properly dispose oneself to such occasions. What I have concluded is that we are certainly not reading this book for the first time. We know the end of the story. So, it is rather like reading a good book for the 10th time. It is good enough that you really do enter into each chapter everytime you read it, but knowing the end doesn't ruin the effect. Nor is the end something you never really forget. In fact, we have the advantage over the original event in that we memorialize it WITH the end in mind whereas they could not.

So, while it is certainly not a good day for planning parties and such, I am not sure it requires us to completely forget joy and hope altogether if we come across it in the normal flow of the day. Many people still have to work, go to school, etc. While we are reflective we are not doing so without our eyes on Easter Sunday.

This is just my sense of things.

FJ

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:36 am 
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ForumJunkie wrote:
St Veronica wrote:
Is it 'right' or proper for us to be joyful on Good Friday? I've always thought it was a day to be sorrowful.


SV


It's funny you ask this because I have often struggled with this. I have never received a good answer as to how to properly dispose oneself to such occasions. What I have concluded is that we are certainly not reading this book for the first time. We know the end of the story. So, it is rather like reading a good book for the 10th time. It is good enough that you really do enter into each chapter everytime you read it, but knowing the end doesn't ruin the effect. Nor is the end something you never really forget. In fact, we have the advantage over the original event in that we memorialize it WITH the end in mind whereas they could not.

So, while it is certainly not a good day for planning parties and such, I am not sure it requires us to completely forget joy and hope altogether if we come across it in the normal flow of the day. Many people still have to work, go to school, etc. While we are reflective we are not doing so without our eyes on Easter Sunday.

This is just my sense of things.

FJ



Pete sorry if I seemed to imply you were doing something wrong by visiting...I was more or less thinking out loud with my perceptions as opposed to what *should* happen.


FJ the Sacrifice is outside time and space so I don't think I can go with the analogy of 'book reading'. Maybe it's just that in this world we live in there is no recognition of what the day represents and maybe I'm over-compensating for that....I don't walk around in sackcloth and ashes but we do generally make it a point to watch Passion of The Christ so for us we take a more somber approach to the day according to work etc.


SV

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 10:41 am 
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St Veronica wrote:
Is it 'right' or proper for us to be joyful on Good Friday? I've always thought it was a day to be sorrowful.


SV


can we not be joyful in Our Lord's Sacrifice as well as sorrowful for causing His sorrow? I mean ... obviously the emphasis of the day is on the sorrow we have over the Death of Our Lord because of course we tend to celebrate the joyful parts in Easter ... but I see no reason, provided we are in an appropriate spirit of prayer and penance why we cannot also be joyful ...

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:21 am 
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I can understand being joyful on Easter day...Christ is risen. Good Friday is His death and it just seems wrong (for me) to be joyful.


SV

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 Post subject: Re: Good Friday Fast question
PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:26 pm 
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On Good Friday, I weep with sorrow for my Lord's suffering and joy for His Will being done. I weep with sorrow for my own sinfulness and offenses against Him, but also with joy for love that is shown in the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. The sight of a crucifix always fills me with both joy and sorrow, not always in equal parts.

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